Select Page
Poker Forum
Over 1,291,000 Posts!
Poker ForumAll Other Poker/Live Poker

1/3NL: TPTK in EP, Facing Pressure from Solid Reg Deep

Results 1 to 31 of 31
  1. #1

    Default 1/3NL: TPTK in EP, Facing Pressure from Solid Reg Deep

    Villain in this hand is one of the two or three biggest regs at this (small) card room. I put my notes on villain below this hand because they're very lengthy, and they're moreso notes on dynamics than very certain reads on how villain plays.

    Hero (covers everyone) opens for $13 EP with AsQc. Villain (~$700) flats in LP. One of my fit or fold marks flats in the blinds.

    $35 to the flop, and the board comes Tc 7d 2c.

    I bet $24, villain calls, the fish folds.

    $83 to the turn, which brings a Qh.

    I bet $56. Villain reaches for greens; for a second I can't tell if he's calling or raising, but it doesn't take long before he's clearly thinking through a raise size. He raises to $215.

    I hate life, and I don't make much of a secret about it. I try to count his chips, and ask "How much do you have left? Like $300?" I notice I underestimated how many greens he has and says, "Oh wow, nevermind, you have a lot left," villain says he has about $400, and I dismiss it as though the answer might as well be that he has infinite money behind. I go hard into the tank.

    Hero ??

    Relevant notes:

    1) I have every reason to believe that he is not intimidated by absolute money, and will make whatever play he thinks will turn a profit.

    Villain used to play 2/5NL back before all of our neighboring states legalized table games and the room thinned out. He's willing to play whatever big-bet game and seems overall confident that he'll have an edge. We started the table together with a couple of other players, and I sat my chips at a seat directly across from him basically saying, "Let's just stay out of each others' way," and I went to the bathroom and came back and he had moved to my direct left, bought in for the max amount ($500). I was the only one bought in for more than a couple hundred.

    This is the villain I stacked for 133bbs on the SF > Top Boat > Mucked cards that I mentioned in the November SSNL Chat Thread just a couple days ago, and though he gave a standard "Wow, that's sick," he was completely unperturbed. He's always bought in full. He would play whatever big-bet game, and I get the sense that he feels confident he has the advantage regardless (Michael Phelps has donked away a lot of money at 5/5 PLO at this room, and I think villain was one of the big beneficiaries.)


    2) It's hard for me to say exactly how he views me, but I have been a bit of an iso -> cbet monkey in our two recent sessions. I haven't been at this card room for months, and I doubt he remembers me from before. The last session, I ran a little hot PF as of when he sat down, and the table had started to adjust by calling very light against me preflop, and I even noticed villain in this hand calling me from the blinds for large amounts a few more times than I would expect your standard internet TAG to. I showed 86o once when the table l/f'ed to me. He never showed down in these hands. He 3b me once and I snap folded.

    This time, I am absolutely steamrolling the table. I have doubled my initial $500 without ever winning a big pot. I showed some barrel bluffs early and have gone to shown-down with T8o and A5o in pots I opened.


    3) I have wilted very easily in the face of pressure,
    snap-folding my PFRs to 3bs from the fish at the table, x/f'ing a good deal of flops, snap folding to flop raises, but this has mostly been against fish, and I'm not sure if this will make villain respect me more or less. My decisions have been very straightforward in the face of aggression, and I haven't so much as called down with second pair this session.

    I didn't initially realize the game was 1/3, and I only bought in for $300. Once I realized, I told dealer I had an additional $200, behind but changed my mind once I realized the only player more than $200 deep was the reg to my direct left. As the people to my left picked up chips, I added my money on top, and I seat changed a few times until I was directly across from villain and to the direct left of my two marks (high %age l/f'ers, who were fit or fold postflop).

    Very early into the session, villain won a $200+ pot off me when I opened in EP, cbet T-high tt flop for 3/4 PSB, continued on a flush turn and tanked when he raised me. He raised me, I tanked a bit, apologized to the table for taking a bit of time, and ultimately folded. Villain showed an offsuit Q and said I musta had JJ. (I assume the other card was the FD Ace and he was showing me to tilt me).

    Villain and I had two other sizable pots together, but they weren't huge, and I don't think they help with this hand much


    4) Misc. reads on villain's overall play: He plays preflop a bit more like I'd expect from someone who learned the game Live than Online. He doesn't hesitate to open limp in EP, and I've never seen him consider any play other than call or fold when iso'ed. I have a strong sense that he's tempted by playable hands and hands with outs much more than hands with absolute hand strength.

    I don't get the sense he's much of an FPSer. He's capable of aggression and putting his opponents in tough spots, and there was one hand where he clearly adjusted his value range against the cardroom's ultimate OMC, but he hasn't raised anyone's eyebrows. He claimed not too many hands before this one that he was running card dead.

    Biggest cliffnotes is that I have plenty of reason to think that I'm on the laggier side of aggressive (at least preflop), though I haven't shown any sign of being splashy postflop. All of my light isos were obviously in LP, and I have no idea how much he respects my EP opens.
    Last edited by surviva316; 11-03-2014 at 08:25 PM.
  2. #2
    Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,458
    Location
    California, USA
    This is tough - both stacks are deep.

    I don't put him on a flush draw. The raise seems too aggressive for a straight draw most of the time.

    Weird hand - sorry I can't be more helpful.
  3. #3
    Renton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,863
    Location
    a little town called none of your goddamn business
    Suppose that he's doing this with a range of nutted hands and 8.5 out draws, and you want to defend enough of your range that he's break even doing this with the weakest flush draw or open ender.

    So he risks 215 to win 139.

    0 = 139x - 215(1-x), x = 60.7%

    So as you can see you only need to defend 39.3% your range to make a pure bluff indifferent. Given how strong your betting range is here, I think that should be easy even if you're folding AQ. Problem is you may want to make a hand with significant equity indifferent. Factoring the fact that he can win the pot with his bluff even when you call his raise:

    0 = 139x + (83+215)*(8.5/46)*(1-x) - 215*(37.5/46)*(1-x)
    x = 46.4%

    Remarkably, his needed fold equity drops massively when he can win the pot 8.5/46 of the time. This doesn't even account for the implied odds of the rest of your stack that are substantial. So honestly I doubt you can play a strategy that would make it unprofitable for him to make this raise with an open ender or flush draw. The good news is that you need only make his raise indifferent between calling and raising, not between calling and folding. With position and deep stacks he should have a very profitable call with all such draws. Suppose the EV of his turn call with an open ender is 25 dollars:

    25 = 139x + (83+215)*(8.5/46)*(1-x) - 215*(37.5/46)*(1-x)
    x = 56%

    So as you can see, its not quite as dire as it looks, you only need to defend 4% more hands to make his draws indifferent to bluff-raising than a pure bluff. That said, you have a lot of hands to defend here before AQ. KK/AA lack the set/2p blocker but have a lot more equity against QT and draws. You've got a good bit of sets and two pairs to defend here, and most importantly, the nut flush draw is massive here, both as a bluff-catcher, and a hand that can perform reasonably on a wide range of rivers, particularly if you have a gutter to go with it.

    My default would be to fold here with all but two pairs+, AA, and good draws. And if I felt like this raise was a large possibility, I would check a fairly strong range of hands like this as a defensive measure.
  4. #4
    My question about this hand is less-so from a GTO perspective. As an EP opener making two large bets into this board, I both expect to be very value-heavy and for this particular hand to be near the bottom of my value range (though I do think it's nifty that I block his most likely set, only plausible two-pair and one of his club outs), so I feel absolutely comfortable folding here and only think this spot gets interesting when I have AA.

    I didn't want to taint responses to my OP too much with my thought process, but here are my reasons for considering making a departure from the GTO play:

    1) I'm not sure how much he respects my EP raises; I have personally never run into another player at this card room who plays PF as laggy as he's seen me play in LP while also playing a nitty range in EP. I know that's a very standard makeup online, and since he's been around the block MANY more times than I have at this room, he might have a better feel for my play then I give him credit, but I sense that he doesn't see my EP opens as AJs+.

    In other words, while my actual range is extremely strong here, I'm not so sure my perceived range is nearly as strong.

    2) I'm not sure how often he flats flop with a nutted hand with another player to act. I don't think he's incapable of it, but I think he's *vastly* more likely to raise these hands.

    On the other hand, it is very standard to flat with a draw to leave the not-as-good player in the hand and save his bullets for the turn, especially when I'm pegged as someone who finds any reason to fire 2+ times. Maybe he's not thinking deeply enough about his range to consider how unbalanced this makes him (I reg the LLSNL forums on 2p2; trust me, GTO is not a popular point of discussion); maybe he is considering this but just figures with his position, these stack sizes, and his reads on me, he doesn't expect me to make the proper adjustment of hero calling a single pair for $650+ dollars. In other words, I think there are many possibilities whereby his range for raising the turn is mostly QT/QQ (3 combos) and draws, and--to me--Occam's Razor favors these possibilities over the chance that he 1) has a good grasp of GTO + 2) recognizes that he needs to flat nutted hands on the flop a sizable percentage of the time + 3) thinks the advantages of playing balanced outweighs playing a straightforward strategy of [ cooler me with the nuts on the flop / apply pressure on my double barrels with draws ] is better against me (and he's almost certainly right against 99% of live players, btw).

    In other words, I think it takes a great deal of respect at the poker table to flat the flop with a nutted hand to protect his turn raising range, and I don't see why he'd have this respect for anyone at a 1/3NL table, much less me. Continuing here can be an exploitative play against this (maybe) likely unbalanced strategy.

    3) Given all the dynamics I've listed about him being clearly the most comfortable at every table at playing pots for deep stacks, and the fact that I completely tanked the turn and despised the fact that he had a lot left behind and was overall genuinely miserable about this spot, I think he will continue with his bluff an exploitable amount on blank rivers. So a call here and c/c non-6/J/K/club rivers can exploit his misapprehension of how willing I am to play for stacks.
    __________________

    Anyway, I don't want to spend this thread arguing my own thought process because then what's the point of asking your opinions? I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't considering continuing here from a pure GTO perspective.
    Last edited by surviva316; 11-04-2014 at 01:07 PM.
  5. #5
    Renton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,863
    Location
    a little town called none of your goddamn business
    The GT perspective is useful to suss out what plausible strategies for IP are, which can lead to exploitative counter-strategies.

    In this case, it seems easy for you to defend enough of your range vs a pure bluff, so I think you can rule out pure bluffs from a rational and smart player. I think to raise to this large size is almost always a nutted hand or a strong semibluff of some kind. And the problem with dealing with that type of range is that there is more than one type of prominent draw out. Villain could choose any of 15 combos of 98, or loads of flush draws, some of which have gutters, so you figure to have equity stolen from your hand, one way or the other, on every single river other than Jc/6c. So you're facing a huge raise and the effective size of the raise is actually even larger than 215 unless you have a way of inducing mistakes from his range on rivers. IMO with this specific hand, you do not. There are no rivers you can bluff, and he will be unlikely to bluff you on the rivers that are great for your hand.
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    In this case, it seems easy for you to defend enough of your range vs a pure bluff, so I think you can rule out pure bluffs from a rational and smart player.
    Your GTO analysis included the assumption that our betting range is strong here, which is an assumption that he very very well might not make. This is may not be an important quibble, though, because I don't think he's doing this with less than an OESD regardless).

    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    I think to raise to this large size is almost always a nutted hand or a strong semibluff of some kind.
    But let's assume, for argument's sake, that villain only has 3 combos of value hands (and considering there are a ton of combos of strong semibluffs [I think he almost always flats preflop with almost all Axs]): surely we still need to consider continuing here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    So you're facing a huge raise and the effective size of the raise is actually even larger than 215 unless you have a way of inducing mistakes from his range on rivers. IMO with this specific hand, you do not. There are no rivers you can bluff, and he will be unlikely to bluff you on the rivers that are great for your hand.
    I was curious if #3 from my last post made it more likely that villain is going to make a mistake on the river than I am. I'd have to do some math on the exact rivers I plan to call down on and see if this is plausible, much less likely, though.

    ____

    Again, I certainly don't want to spend this whole thread defending the answer that I want you guys to make (lol), but I figure you'll mostly be the only respondent, so I might as well milk your feedback for all its worth.
  7. #7
    how often are you doubling barreling at this table?

    Taking into account the hand where he shows offsuit Q and other factors (you basically telling him you want to stay out of each others' way, his insistence on moving to your left despite that, you building your stack without showdown, etc.) makes me want to call more.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  8. #8
    Renton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,863
    Location
    a little town called none of your goddamn business
    Even if he bluffs a slightly exploitable amount on the river, you'll still likely only be able to call due to the size of the pot, which could leave the compound EV of your turn call + river c/c remaining negative. Equity is not only stolen from making the best hand fold, but also from making the worst hand call. If he only bluffs 10% of the time on rivers, you will be exploited for 10% of the pot and be able to do nothing about that, since you will be unable to call. If he over-bluffs slightly, you'll be able to call but be exploited for a percentage of the bet equal to his value betting frequency. This is the simple reality of having a bluff catcher against a nuts or nothing range.
  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    Even if he bluffs a slightly exploitable amount on the river ...
    This is my sense of it too, which makes me say I have to double check the math.

    I think the second point of that post is what I'm the most stuck on, though. If it's true that we should continue when villain has 3 combos of nuts and a lot of semi-bluffs, then I think the biggest part of this discussion is how often he has a value hand other than QT/QQ and how many semi-bluff combos he's willing to raise this large with (and, secondarily, if the ratio is thin enough to continue against, then should we flat or shove?).

    If it's not true, then obviously I should fold and there isn't much more to the discussion.
  10. #10
    change tables?
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  11. #11
    Renton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,863
    Location
    a little town called none of your goddamn business
    Where X is the frequency that he gives up on the river, and Y is the frequency that he bluffs in his river betting range. You'll need at least 32% equity on the river so we'll disregard Y values below 32% as you'll be able to improve your equity by folding.

    Outcomes:

    - gives up on river, you win 215+83+56, happens X of the time
    - you call river and win 215+83+56+448, happens (1-X)*Y of the time
    - you call the river and lose 159+448, happens (1-X)*(1-Y) of the time

    0 = (215+83+56)*x + (215+83+56+448)*(1-x)*y - (159+448)*(1-X)*(1-Y)



    http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i....32+to+y%3D0.5

    So as you can see its a smooth curve that goes from you needing 44% equity on the river if he never gives up, to you needing him to give up just over 30% of the time if its a break even call of his river shove.
  12. #12
    RE: Table Change

    We haven't been clashing that much. Like I said, he's not out to abuse anyone, including me. He's only 3b me twice (infrequent enough that he mighta just had premiums), and while he flatted me more from the blinds in the last session than I'd expect a typical online TAG to, he's hardly stealing my action. I don't think he's going nuts here with anything less than OESD, and while I'd prefer to play against people who play their entire range passively, I'm not gonna table change because there's one person who knows how to semi-bluff so long as he's not completely abusing my opens/cbets/barrels.

    I also don't think him potentially not respecting my EP raises isn't a problem.

    My question only arises here because there are (maybe) so few ways for him to have the nuts and (maybe) so many ways for him to have OESD+ that I (maybe) am best-off continuing here.
    Last edited by surviva316; 11-04-2014 at 05:03 PM.
  13. #13
    Renton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,863
    Location
    a little town called none of your goddamn business
    Quote Originally Posted by surviva316 View Post
    so few ways for him to have the nuts
    I dunno, I see all four sets fully represented in his range, as it would be a bit foolish to raise the flop into a donk. He's also loose enough that he probably plays QTo, admittedly you block that and QQ. Q7s is also possible.
  14. #14
    what hands are you raising in EP and doubling on this board?
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    I dunno, I see all four sets fully represented in his range, as it would be a bit foolish to raise the flop into a donk.
    The other player in the hand was a l/f'ing, fit or fold lockbox (he was the one I was trying to loosen up with some early bluff shows and so forth, but he simply has no interest in playing marginal hands for big pots). He's not good by any means, but I'd be surprised if villain is as worried about losing value against him as he is giving him a cheap price on a draw. I'm not certain villain has the same read on this player or plays exactly this way against him, so it's a variable for sure, but the two know each other well so I would mostly expect this to be his impression as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    He's also loose enough that he probably plays QTo, admittedly you block that and QQ. Q7s is also possible.
    I think he is much much more likely to have Q7s. I mentioned in my reads that he doesn't seem to play hands that he just hopes to make TPMK, though this is a feel thing that's hard to convey. Just in watching all the pots he played as a limper or cold caller, I never put him on a marginal pair just based on his general approach to multi-way pots, frequency of difficult betting/calling decisions, etc.

    Q7s seems like more his type of hand IP deep, but I think he'd be playing a LOT wider if this were in his range.

    I maybe gave the wrong impression when I said he called more times than I expected. It doesn't take too many hesitation-free calls out of the blinds with limpers left to act and then quickly become disinterested postflop for me to think that they're a little call happier in this spot than I would be (seeing as how I mostly fold AJo in that spot readless).

    Anyway, maybe I'm wrong and he has this sometimes, but we're splitting 1 combo up here anyway. QTo is obviously the more important hand combos-wise, and I would say that if he has that hand, then it's completely fucking back to the drawing board with my reads altogether. I'm willing to bet a lot that he doesn't have that here.

    Sorry if my read wasn't clear there. Lord knows I wrote enough that it shoulda been clear.
    Last edited by surviva316; 11-04-2014 at 05:59 PM.
  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by baudib View Post
    what hands are you raising in EP and doubling on this board?
    This might be the bottom of my value range, other than QJcc/KQcc. Obviously QQ+, TT/77/22 (the times I have 22)

    As for bluffs, AK/AJs/98s(the times I have 98s).

    I guess that's my entire range except 99/88 and FD-less QJs and KQs, so I guess maybe I should check QQ here some?
  17. #17
    You didn't mention KJ.

    What hands are you C/C turn with?

    While we haven't broken down your range in detail, it seems like AQ should definitely be a hand to B/F.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by baudib View Post
    You didn't mention KJ.

    What hands are you C/C turn with?

    While we haven't broken down your range in detail, it seems like AQ should definitely be a hand to B/F.
    I don't have KJ hardly ever here.

    What gave me hesitation is that I don't think this is at all my perceived range. Of course, if I'm so unsure about what to do here, then I can just make the unexploitable play and fold a hand that's so close to the bottom of my value range.

    Thanks a lot for all the responses.
  19. #19
    Oh I started to think the QT was on the flop.

    do you not open KJs here?
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by baudib View Post
    Oh I started to think the QT was on the flop.

    do you not open KJs here?
    Almost never, no. I was like UTG+1 or 2.

    It's a decent enough hand that I'll look to my left and see if there are several players who have their cards halfway to the muck, and there are obviously some super specific exceptions like when there's a can't-miss fish fish in front of me and a bunch of corpses behind me or something, but it's a muck 90%+ of the time, even at these games.
  21. #21
    Renton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,863
    Location
    a little town called none of your goddamn business
    KJs is a greater EV starting hand in deepstacked NLHE than AQo in a large majority of cases, most especially when opening in EP.
  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    KJs is a greater EV starting hand in deepstacked NLHE than AQo in a large majority of cases, most especially when opening in EP.
    Surely it depends on a ton of factors, like how much value TPTK is going for against certain villains and so forth. The beauty of LLSNL is that there are an insane amount of table makeups.

    Anyway, at this table, most 7 out of 10 players were sitting on 50-100bbs, most of them hovering around $200. The three exceptions were me, the described reg (~220bbs) and the l/f'ing fit-or-folder two seats to my right (~160bbs).

    That's certainly a great observation, though, and one to take into consideration in a lot of spots.
  23. #23
    Renton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,863
    Location
    a little town called none of your goddamn business
    Open-folding KJs cannot be correct in any NLHE situation regardless of stacks, pretty much. It usually cannot be folded to a raise either, unless from a very tight range for a very large percentage of the effective stacks. In practice I basically only fold it when I'm facing a 3-bet or 4-bet cold.
  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    Open-folding KJs cannot be correct in any NLHE situation regardless of stacks, pretty much. It usually cannot be folded to a raise either, unless from a very tight range for a very large percentage of the effective stacks. In practice I basically only fold it when I'm facing a 3-bet or 4-bet cold.
    I hope you realize you are moderately wrinkling my brain right now.
  25. #25
    Renton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,863
    Location
    a little town called none of your goddamn business
    Well if you look at any push/fold chart, KJs is always shoved from all positions with 8-12bb, even with moderate ICM effects. And while there are hands such as 44 which are folds at moderately short stacks such as 15-25bb but were shoves at 10, I'm fairly sure that KJs isn't one such hand since it plays so well versus BB flatting range and since you're simply "allowed" to raise a certain number of non-nut hands in EP.

    As stacks grow from 25bb, the smooth equity characteristics of big suited broadways makes them among the highest EV starting hands since they flop very playable equity on over 50 percent of flops. And at stacks >150bb, they're among the nuttiest hands and start even outperforming hands like AQ.
    Last edited by Renton; 11-06-2014 at 10:49 AM.
  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    As stacks grow from 25bb, the smooth equity characteristics of big suited broadways makes them among the highest EV starting hands since they flop very playable equity on over 50 percent of flops.
    Where I struggle with this is that at a lot of tables, I mostly play with loose players with 50-75bbs with a bad PFR -> cbet image where I'll see a lot of 3-5-way pots in MP or EP, and I don't think I'm gonna make a huge margin in this spot with double BDs + an over. I think hands that can flop top pair and get it in by the turn against dominated ranges play much better in these spots.

    I certainly see how in TAGGier online games where you're mostly seeing 2-3-way flops with a super-strong perceived range, we'd be a fool not to sprinkle in some non-nut combos that can bet and barrel a lot of boards.

    I think preflop position is just as important in these games as postflop position. Stacks/player types/etc are so varied and ranges are so wide that it's hard to say what "kind" of hand will serve you best. With AQo, you at least know that you block most the hands that are going to 3b you off your hand preflop, you're always dominating just about everyone's flatting range, and you'll hit flops that you can play for straight value. Even when you're OOP to someone with a big stack, it's very rare that it's a player who's aggressive enough to put you in tough spots with that big stack (obviously this hand is a glaring exception).

    I'm very much enjoying this discussion, though, so let me know if I'm being fallacious in any way.
  27. #27
    Renton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,863
    Location
    a little town called none of your goddamn business
    Your thoughts are fine, just that you seem to think that you have to be able to cbet into 5 players with marginal equity in order to justify opening a nearly premium hand such as KJs. If you played it completely fit or fold it would be a profitable open from every position. Being able to find spots to run bluffs with it is just a giant cherry on top, really. Hands like KJs A9s QTs have extremely high multiway equity and live donks tend to check 90% of their range when checked to on flop and turn so you figure to realize over 100% of that equity, even when you flop nothing.
  28. #28
    I don't open fold KJs from any position, i'm pretty close to Renton's thinking on this. as far as few deep stacks at table, I'd be pretty happy to get it in with top pair+ for 50-75 BBs always.

    I don't get why you'd sometimes have 98s in EP but rarely KJs.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  29. #29
    it sucks your holding Qc. that was a long read but it sounds like hes a player, maybe he thinks your range when you 2 barrel is geared towards absolute strength or draws only. from his point of view he has position to put a ton of pressure on you in this spot, if you call and check river he has about 2/3 pot size stack left. he knows theres quite a chunk of your range you have to fold to that bet. honestly it looks like KcJc. if I held that hand in this spot that's how I would play it. or TT,77 maybe KK if ive been running really bad and villain will bet streets with draws. 98cc also. shoving here is bad, given history I call and evaluate river.
    "The harder you work, the luckier you get." ~ courtesy of my fortune cookie from china king

    "One of the best pieces of advice I've ever read in this forum was three words long...

    bet fucking fold." Ong
  30. #30
    I flatted the turn btw. River comes 9s. I check, villain gives it a few seconds, then says "All-in," and slides a representative stack of nickels in the middle.

    I think for a bit (not near as long as on the turn), confirm to myself that I planned on calling the turn only if I was going to x/c on a blank river. I confirm that villain is in fact capable of continuing with his bluff once I showed dread at how much money he had left behind. I confirm that, while he might have KJs in his range, he never has KJo, and the 4 combos aren't enough to tip this toward a fold. I confirm that T9 is highly unlikely. River didn't seem much to change his mind about his plan either, so a rivered mid-two-pair might be further discounted.

    With a massive sigh, I say, "I'm gonna call, but I'm behind."

    Villain looks at me expectantly, then at the dealer, "Does that mean anything?"

    The dealer confirms that my statement is meaningless.

    I say, "Yeah, yeah, I call."

    Villain says, "Nice hand."

    I show, he nods his head as though that's exactly what he expected, checks his pocket cards, moves them toward the muck, but hesitates ...

    Pulls his hand back and reads it. He looks at the board, reads his hand a 3rd time.

    He finally mucks. Hero scoops $1350. It takes him about 2 orbits to stack the chips as he sighs incessantly and mutters "Lord jesus" to himself over and over again as though he's the one who lost the pot.

    The triple hand read makes me think J9?
    Last edited by surviva316; 11-13-2014 at 12:52 PM.
  31. #31
    Not that results matter, obviously.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •