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Yucky KK hand

  
 
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euphoricism
Old 12-16-2005, 07:36 PM     Post subject: Yucky KK hand #1 (permalink)  
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HHConverter down


Bet Duh Riva?


***** Hand History for Game 3211272373 *****
$5/$10 Texas Hold'em - Friday, December 16, 15:18:36 EDT 2005
Table Table 65962 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: uhangin ( $348 )
Seat 3: CountD0nkula ( $591 )
Seat 4: michaeltran ( $290 )
Seat 5: karaboo ( $190 )
Seat 6: Barhumbug ( $278.50 )
Seat 1: Euphoricism ( $207 )
uhangin posts small blind [$2].
CountD0nkula posts big blind [$5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Euphoricism [ K K ]
michaeltran has been reconnected and has 20 seconds to act.
michaeltran raises [$10].
karaboo calls [$10].
Barhumbug calls [$10].
Euphoricism raises [$15].
uhangin folds.
CountD0nkula calls [$10].
michaeltran calls [$5].
karaboo calls [$5].
Barhumbug calls [$5].
** Dealing Flop ** [ A, K, Q ]
CountD0nkula bets [$5].
michaeltran folds.
karaboo raises [$10].
Barhumbug calls [$10].
Euphoricism calls [$10].
CountD0nkula raises [$10].
karaboo calls [$5].
Barhumbug calls [$5].
Euphoricism calls [$5].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5 ]
CountD0nkula checks.
karaboo bets [$10].
Barhumbug calls [$10].
Euphoricism raises [$20].
CountD0nkula calls [$20].
karaboo calls [$10].
Barhumbug calls [$10].
** Dealing River ** [ T ]
CountD0nkula checks.
karaboo checks.
Barhumbug checks.
Euphoricism checks.

Bet Duh Riva?
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Nehmer
Old 12-16-2005, 08:44 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I think with the river card being that much of a scare card, there is a very good chance that anybody that caught on the river would bet instead of risking it getting checked through. That coupled with the fact that you are potentially missing out on 3 bets if nobody did catch on you leads me to believe you have to bet this river. I don't really understand your play on teh flop either...Big pot with obvious straight draws, I say you want to be limiting the field if possible.
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Fnord
Old 12-16-2005, 09:24 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I think I find a bet here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 12-16-2005, 09:45 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 Yeah, I agree with them. You have to Jam this pot as you should be letting everyone know exactly what you have. The river, you have to bet here. Its checked to you and you are getting an opportunity to win 3 bets but lose one.


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Fnord
Old 12-16-2005, 09:51 PM #5 (permalink)  
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This board is scary and at this level most players realize that they need to bet out on this board if they sucked out on you otherwise you're almost always checking behind. Top 2 is probably the weakest hand I would bet here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 12-16-2005, 11:22 PM #6 (permalink)  
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anyone wanna tell me why calling the flop was better than capping?
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 12-17-2005, 12:44 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
I think I find a bet here.
I think you can only bet here if you can fold to a check raise. otherwise you're in a win 1/ lose 2 situation.
Although, the fact that you may pick up multiple callers leads further toward betting.

There is no way I could find a bet here with 2 pair.
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 12-17-2005, 12:47 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
anyone wanna tell me why calling the flop was better than capping?
I like the flop call. You have a sick amount of equity with a set AND the nut flush card. Letting everyone stay in the hand will win you more over the long run, since the players that you would knock out with a 3 bet probably are drawing all but dead.
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 12-17-2005, 01:04 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
I like the flop call. You have a sick amount of equity with a set AND the nut flush card. Letting everyone stay in the hand will win you more over the long run, since the players that you would knock out with a 3 bet probably are drawing all but dead.
given the size of the pot already, relatively speaking 2 bets vs 3 bets isn't that big a deal. i find it unlikely for someone to call 2 bets but fold 3 bets.

maybe if the pot was smaller i would agree with calling, since a bad turn card would slow you down, and a good turn card you go crazy to push your edge.
 
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euphoricism
Old 12-17-2005, 08:18 AM #10 (permalink)  
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I figure this is the most drastic of the WA/WB scenarios.

On the flop call: I don't want my opponents folding because they're almost all dead money except for me and whoever flopped the nut straight (if they in fact did), and I don't want to give away my strength (though, with all this action, it probably wouldn't have mattered much) and kill the turn action.

As soon as I checked the river, I knew it was probably a mistake. But with this many opponents, i figured SOMONE had to have hit the straight. A better question might be, what would I do if someone donked the river? Cry call I guess.


FWIW:
CountD0nkula shows [ Td, 9d ] a pair of tens.
karaboo shows [ Qh, Ah ] two pairs, aces and queens.
Barhumbug doesn't show [ Ac, 8h ] a pair of aces.
Euphoricism shows [ Kd, Kh ] three of a kind, kings.
Euphoricism wins $214 from the main pot with three of a kind, kings.
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StinkyBeaver
Old 12-17-2005, 10:09 AM #11 (permalink)  
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I'm capping that flop without any hesitation...

I'm pulling all my hair off my head from that river, but you gotta bet.
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Old 12-17-2005, 04:51 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
... (though, with all this action, it probably wouldn't have mattered much) ...
precisely why i think you should cap. it doesn't make a difference and gurantees a capped flop. i think chances for someone donking the turn are high too.
 
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pokerfanatic
Old 12-17-2005, 05:00 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
I like the flop call. You have a sick amount of equity with a set AND the nut flush card. Letting everyone stay in the hand will win you more over the long run, since the players that you would knock out with a 3 bet probably are drawing all but dead.
given the size of the pot already, relatively speaking 2 bets vs 3 bets isn't that big a deal. i find it unlikely for someone to call 2 bets but fold 3 bets.

maybe if the pot was smaller i would agree with calling, since a bad turn card would slow you down, and a good turn card you go crazy to push your edge.
I thought he should have raised the flop too... but I'm not an expert, I don't like waiting for the turn in some situations sure it's the right play others it is not... sure you might win an extra 1/2 bet by waiting for the turn but will that over weigh just getting the most money in possible when you are 95% sure you have the best hand over the long term given the times you get sucked out on?

I think the turn raise sends up red flags faster then the flop raise does in this situation, you raising the flop could be raising with say TP w/ Draw, Nut FD, GSD, Two Pair, or a Set but when raising the turn it says to me I can beat TPTK w/ draw, possible a Two pair to a flopped Straight... if you think about it I find that raising the flop actually ends up getting people to put you on a wider range of hands and possibly make more mistakes turn and river...

Given he raised PF all these hand mentioned above are likely... So therefore I think I find myself raising here pushing my edge as much as possible, if you would have raised a FD in this spot you surely should raise KK here...
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StinkyBeaver
Old 12-18-2005, 09:14 PM #14 (permalink)  
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I think Fanatic is spot on here...

Theres no doubt in my mind that I raise a nutflush draw here...

Also say this hand gets capped against us by a Tag then we can't rule out a flush draw at all.
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