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midas06

03-13-2006, 04:49 AM Post subject: You play this the same?

#1 (permalink)

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Location: NZ

Posts: 2,196

Villain is a well known fish. (who just limped UTG with T9s)

I was thinking about capping preflop, which probably wouldn't have changed the hand much at all the way it played out. Also villain likes to think of himself as tricky. Anyway, is this a good example of what could be a WA/WB hand?

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with Q

Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, 4 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 2

(7.5SB, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: 6

(5.75BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

River: A

(7.75BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Results:
Final pot: 9.75BB

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midas06

03-13-2006, 04:53 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2005

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Posts: 2,196

Another hand from the same session (different villain). I think I lost value on this one.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with K

UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Button folds, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls, CO calls.

Flop: K

(7SB, 3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, CO folds, Hero calls.

Turn: 6

(5.5BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: 5.5BB

euphoricism

03-13-2006, 05:08 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Threebet hand 1. Hand'll play different from there.

Hand 2. We know he doesnt have the Q. The Q ain't raisin there. (although I did run into someone who actually DID have it today, and woops. that was an expensive mistake.)

So its going to be pretty hard to get any more money from the guy anyway. He's overwhelmingly likely to check behind on the turn, and MAYBE you might get a river call if you bet it, but he's pretty likely to fold unimproved.

So really you might as well threebet the flop and get the extra half a bet. I dont see what he can call with on the turn unless he has a weaker king, at which case he's pretty likely to call down if you threebet the flop too.

Meh. It doesnt matter. Its a 1/2bet difference.

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elipsesjeff

03-13-2006, 05:34 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

dont underestimate the affects that 1/2 has on your win rate if this happens once every 100 or 1000 hands. If you think he would fold if you raise, then when not let him bet his hand to death?

Hand 1: You've got to cap preflop. Then, ask yourself the question: how do i get the max out of this guy when i'm ahead but lose the least when behind? How does check/raising the flop help or hurt your decision?

You'll find that the answers to these questions will lead you to the correct play in almost any situation. And, if you sit and think for 5 seconds before you act on what your actions will be, then you should always have the correct line.

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euphoricism

03-13-2006, 08:02 AM

#5 (permalink)

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I agree, I figure we're way ahead here and should threebet to get the other half a bet. Chances of him having a Q are almost zero, and chances of him having a K are pretty low. If he's got a king he MIGHT call down anyway, so you still want that extra half bet.

However, if we think a threebet will scare out a weaker hand, we shouldn't, as we'd gain 1/2 BB at the price of 2-3BB. I guess that was my point.

I've really grown quite fond of letting the opponent bet his hands to death - however some days, like my -120 bet yesterday, it'll murder you when you let him draw. Carefully weight the two, and consider the texture of the board. He's unlikely to have a Q here, and unlikely to have a K here, so whats he betting?

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midas06

03-13-2006, 08:09 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Oh, I forgot to mention that Villain in the first hand is Demiparadigm, the guy who pretty much taught me how to play. Does the fact that villain knows how I play change anything here?

outphase

03-14-2006, 06:45 AM Post subject: Re: You play this the same?

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by midas06

Villain is a well known fish. (who just limped UTG with T9s)
...
Oh, I forgot to mention that Villain in the first hand is Demiparadigm, the guy who pretty much taught me how to play. Does the fact that villain knows how I play change anything here?

I still play it the way you did (barring i cap it preflop).

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambchopdc

Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.

pokerfanatic

03-14-2006, 04:24 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Hand 1:
I probably would not 3 bet at 1/2, the only thing that 3 bets the turn he is the T or 66 or 22 something like that, I sometimes don't even see AA 3 bet the turn because they are scared, so I think putting a c/r on the turn might not be a bad idea...
It also gives him the opportunity to fold a shitty Ace like A2 or A6, or even an unimproved Ace...
it helps protect your hand somewhat...
Of course 1/2 players call regardless with any pair and some will call to the river with as little as K or Q high...
So leading out doesn't sound all that bad if you think he'll check behind...
I can see where Euph comes from with 3 beating the flop because in a standard 3/6 and up game the T waits till the turn to raise...

Hand 2:
I don't know if I like the Stop N Go here, can you fold if you get raised again? What's your play if he calls? I think 3 beating the flop is a good idea to get a good feel where you are, because if he calls and you lead and he raised that's a very telegraphed Q... With the first hand there are ways to improve your hand and not really be drawing dead too often, in the 2nd hand you could improve in various ways and still be dead... Hand 2 is about figuring where you are in a hurry IMO, 3 beating if he caps on the Flop that almost sounds like a Q, if you 3 bet and he calls then raise that is a Q fold, if he calls then folds well nice hand, if he calls then calls again he probably has K and is out kicked, so lead the river again... if he raises the river well pay it off...

I just think it opens slightly more options if you 3 bet the flop on this one the QQ hand is just slightly different given your Qs and the board...

It’s hard for me to say for sure how I would play each hand because I play a lot of reads and “poker feel”. Especially at 6max you have to keep on your toes, and be ready to change things up instantly.

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Xanadu

03-14-2006, 05:38 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Only big mistake I see is you do need to cap it preflop hand 1. You are out of position, so need to get the value bet in before the flop.

Demiparadigm

03-19-2006, 10:25 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Hand 1 you got screwed by Lee Jones. There is no way you can get villain to fold. I would however recommend capping preflop and betting it the whole way. Villain raises the turn sometimes, but you call because he is an asshole. This sticks you with a check/call on the river.
FWIW Villain's range here is 77+ AJ+ KQs... Meaning he never has the T.

Hand 2: check/call the turn and donk/call the river. WA/WB.

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