Originally Posted by Gabriel

mike, why did you hold on to those 3s for so long? were you trying to bluff like you had the flush or were you thinking jeff was bluffing?

Originally Posted by Gabriel

he had four 5s, three 3s and two 7s, which makes 9 outs. that is 4:1 odds, so it was justified by pot odds.

Originally Posted by steviebrutal

Forgive what could be my overwhelming ignorance here, but why did you call down to the turn on hand 1? I see the gutshot and everything which makes the flop a good call, but can you be so sure youre not far behind there? When the 7 hits on the turn, it makes you a hand but with 5 players seeing the flop - wouldnt the odds be decent that one of them has a king? Not to mention the kind of hands that UTG might limp with in that position? If youre behind here and drawing to your straight, youre getting like 11 to 1 in a 6.5 to 1 pot. If you want to add in the 2 7s to your figure.. youre still getting 6.7 to 1 to make a winning hand.

Did you have a specific read on this player to make this decision?

Note: Im not criticizing your play here at all. I just want to understand the thinking behind the hand.

Originally Posted by Gabriel

mike, why did you hold on to those 3s for so long? were you trying to bluff like you had the flush or were you thinking jeff was bluffing?

Originally Posted by Chezj

i fail to understand the flop play in both of these hands. calling a gutshot without odds? raising overcards without odds? also, why take the free card on the turn in hand #2 with a 5:1 draw to the nuts? you had pot odds to bet.

Originally Posted by jmrogers7

I was sitting at this table with Mike and Jeff last night. Jeff went on an incredible run where he won like 5 of 6 hands or something close to that. He was a runaway train and I was gettin' out of the way! Nice job, Jeff!

Originally Posted by Fnord

In the second hand I bet that turn.

Originally Posted by Fnord

I bet the turn because the other 2 players might have over-cards and give up on the turn. The board very easily could have missed both of them. Folding equity makes it a profitable bet.

Originally Posted by ChezJ

on hand 1, you are definitely not getting correct pot odds to call or make one bet on the flop. the pot contains a miniscule 5 small bets. you need 11:1 to chase a gutshot (4 outs). if someone raises behind you, you are completely hosed. even with 4 people calling, you only got 8:1 into the pot.

Originally Posted by ChezJ

you know what, i misread the hand history on #1. i thought he was the one who bet, since it was in red, but it was the guy next to him. so my discussion of the odds was off. still, 8:1 is not enough for me to chase a gutshot.

Originally Posted by ChezJ

on hand 2, as i said before, the pot was laying you 9:1 on the turn. you had a 5:1 chance of catching your flush on the river. so if you bet in this situation every single time, then 5 times out of 6 you will fold the river and lose 1 bet. the 1 time out of 6 that you hit, you will win 9 times your investment, recovering 4 more bets than you lost. the overlay is so significant, you should bet. you could pick up the pot right there, or occasionally fold down a better hand.

ChezJ

Originally Posted by ChezJ

you had a 5:1 chance of catching your flush on the river.

ChezJ

Originally Posted by ChezJ

i don't think you can count on getting 2-4 BB's if you check and hit on the river. in your example, mike bluffed into you. what occurs more often is everyone gets scared of the possible flush and you get no callers or just one once your hand is made.

otoh, you can generally count on your opponents calling your bet on the turn because they are hoping to improve on that last card. for example if they are chasing an open ended straight draw, they will call the turn and instantly dump on the river when they miss. if they have a made hand like TPTK, they will tend to check-call one bet on the river against three hearts.

so i still think your implied odds argument is flawed. my opinion only.

ChezJ