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yet another thin value bet thread...

  
 
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asdpikas
Old 03-25-2009, 06:29 PM     Post subject: yet another thin value bet thread... #1 (permalink)  
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post here!

3/6 Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($60.00)
CO ($131.50)
BTN ($229.00)
SB ($248.00)
Hero (BB) ($107.50)
[UTG posted 3]

Pre-flop: (2.5 SB, 5 players) Hero is BB
UTG raises, CO 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero 4-bets, UTG calls, CO calls

Flop: (12.5 SB, 3 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, CO calls

Turn: (7.2 BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: (7.2 BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls

Final Pot: 9.2 BB
CO shows:
Hero shows:

Hero wins 8.9 BB ( won +5.4 BB )
UTG lost 2.0 BB
CO lost 3.5 BB
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Lance
Old 03-25-2009, 08:19 PM     Post subject: Re: yet another thin value bet thread... #2 (permalink)  
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the villain is very weak, such a bad play.
What a hand he could beat with AJ against preflop capper ?

Anyway i would bet the turn, if you show weakness by checking the turn, most of players bet.

River play is interesting for me. I would normally check/call here.
If he has a pair he is going to call you and bad player can check behind and you save 1 big bet.

But it sounds stupid for me.....coz if you check the turn and he has smth like 88, 99, 10 it is automatic bet for all, apparently not for this one.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe" (Albert Einstein)
 
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asdpikas
Old 03-25-2009, 10:43 PM     Post subject: Re: yet another thin value bet thread... #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
the villain is very weak, such a bad play.
What a hand he could beat with AJ against preflop capper ?

Anyway i would bet the turn, if you show weakness by checking the turn, most of players bet.

River play is interesting for me. I would normally check/call here.
If he has a pair he is going to call you and bad player can check behind and you save 1 big bet.

But it sounds stupid for me.....coz if you check the turn and he has smth like 88, 99, 10 it is automatic bet for all, apparently not for this one.
well, u didnt get it apparently...

when he just calls the baby flop, i am pretty sure (dry baby cards) that he has overcards. He would raise a pair, always. if he made a set and is trapping, well, that is the only thing i can worry about.
when the 3pairs the board, i know that didnt help him, cause there are no 3x hands in his range (maybe A3s).
So, i check planning to call down except if something really scary hits the river. I'm trying to get him to bluff at the pot.
Once he checks the turn, i know he is on overcards for sure, but not tempted to bluff.
Since i beat all his overcards except for AK, i bet for value (expecting more calls from AJ, AT, A9, A8, than AK)
He is getting some 8.2-1 on his call, so he will call hoping i have a lower ace, KQs, QJs, JTs, or some wierd bluff.

I bet for value since most people in his shoes will check behind the river and take a free showdown, but will still call a bet trying to catch a bluff since they are getting good odds and I showed weakness.
It is also fair to assume the 6 on the river didnt help him unless he had 55 or 66, but i believe most people would bet those on the turn with a gutshot and only one overcard, protecting the hand.

In the end, he was getting good enough odds to call, and since i beat 80-90% of his range, i have a clear bet for value.
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Lance
Old 03-26-2009, 03:37 PM #4 (permalink)  
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well,
is that a good move to call this dry flop ?
Would you call the flop in his situation ?
I think thats a bad playing, you presented really huge hand by preflop capping and he ignores it.

You bet the river, if he has 55 or 66 he is going to raise you. Are you rdy to call possible bluff on the river ?
Nevertless you can induce bluff by checking the river.

In the other hand you can say you induced the river call by checking the turn.
As i said in my 1st post....thats a terrible play if he thinks he can beat you with AJo.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe" (Albert Einstein)
 
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asdpikas
Old 03-26-2009, 07:54 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
well,
is that a good move to call this dry flop ?
Yes, he has 2 good overcards and a backdoor str8, he is getting 13.5-1 on his call. It would be correct to call with 3 outs (which he had).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
Would you call the flop in his situation ?
Call, or raise. I would never fold there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
I think thats a bad playing, you presented really huge hand by preflop capping and he ignores it.
This is 6max. A fish posted utg and instaraised. He tried to isolate him, and i 3bet him (technically its a cap, but the first raise is not even worth mentioning). I dont see why it has to be a huge hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
You bet the river, if he has 55 or 66 he is going to raise you. Are you rdy to call possible bluff on the river ?
He never has 55 or 66. When he didnt bet the turn, those are ruled out. I dont know about the bluff raise, i may or may not call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
As i said in my 1st post....thats a terrible play if he thinks he can beat you with AJo.
No, it is good on his part. He is getting 8.2-1 on the river after i showed weakness on the turn. Automatic call, and that is why i can bet for value with confidence.
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Chopper
Old 03-26-2009, 08:02 PM #6 (permalink)  
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you donk the river because HE failed to stab at the turn.....IN POSITION!

once he checks behind he is either very bad, on overs (maybe not even Ahi), or has three dicks w/ five balls each......likely the trifecta (all three).

not that THIS villain would, but what do you do when you get the river bluff raise back at you? i suppose you crying call in the name of pot odds?
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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asdpikas
Old 03-27-2009, 07:27 AM #7 (permalink)  
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it depends on the villain, and recent history, but yeah, i guess i call a raise and look him up (AND TAKE NOTES)
"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
 
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asdpikas
Old 03-27-2009, 07:34 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
you donk the river because HE failed to stab at the turn.....IN POSITION!
what's your take chops? v-bet? c/c?
what's your thoughts on the hand?
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Chopper
Old 03-27-2009, 01:33 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asdpikas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
you donk the river because HE failed to stab at the turn.....IN POSITION!
what's your take chops? v-bet? c/c?
what's your thoughts on the hand?
my take is a bit different because i lean towards weak/tight. but, i'm learning....lol.

first of all, the only 3/6 ive played is live, and if you can beat 10c/20c online, you can handle a standard casino's 3/6 game. you just have to adjust to the lack of aggression.

here, though, i dont cap AQs w/o a read, but i'm fine with it.....and that may be part of my thing with 50/1. i donk the flop, but dont like that its 3-handed. when they only call, i dont know what i would be thinking.

i dont fire the turn since the 3 is not believable to a capped pot pre. and, when our buddy fails to take the lead, i immediately think he's weak as shit, too. now, i struggle with AX, QJs+ (which i doubt, maybe KQ), and 88-AA. however, wouldnt JJ+ raise us on the flop? so, maybe 88-TT?

AT-AK (16 combos each), KQ (16 combos), 88-TT (6 each) leaves me with 98 combos he could hold. there are not straight draws i would be giving credit to, and no flush draws are out so random crap isnt likely at all in a capped pot and a cbet (he has to think we are on something rather strong, but not necessarily an overpair...plus YOUR image is likely a bit wild, so he is liable to call you down a bit lighter than most......which is why you need to be really good in these spots with thin value).

of the 98 combos i give him, we lose to 18 (88-TT), 16 (AK), and we split with 16 (AQ). 34 combos we lose to and 98-16-34=48 we beat. 98/48=2:1 favorite over this range....if its right. so, its a clear value bet.

however, we dont need to get into all that, imo, because he is likely retarded for checking the turn behind and flat out telling us he is unpaired. since he is unpaired, we only fear AK, and therefore, can fold to a raise......if he's that good. i b/f this river oop and only would b/c if villain was an aggro monkey, but he would have bet the turn or 3bet the flop if he were a true aggro monkey.

safely donked, sir. nh.

those are my thoughts.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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asdpikas
Old 03-27-2009, 03:12 PM #10 (permalink)  
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you dont include AJ/AT combos?

he raised the poster, and was getting 13-1 on the flop. I would not fold those on the flop, altho i wouldnt think it terrible if someone folds AT (weaker overcards and too much domination).

One important thing that made me bet was the size of the pot on the river, made me think he would call very light getting big odds.
"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
 
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asdpikas
Old 03-27-2009, 03:14 PM #11 (permalink)  
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hmm... sorry, i see u did include AT and AJ
"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
 
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Chopper
Old 03-27-2009, 03:50 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asdpikas
hmm... sorry, i see u did include AT and AJ
i thought it worthy to include any AXs that didnt pair up on the flop, but i dont see A5s 3betting pre to isolate.....especially if he has a brain cell and sees your image behind him.

i may 3bet to isolate, with you behind me, with AT or some shit thats dominated, but the minute you come in capping cold, i shutterdown. and, i hate seeing an A on the flop with you in behind me, too, because i become WA/WB (even with AK vs you...although i am more apt to stay aggressive/tricky w/ AK than AT)) with another in the pot. not the best of situations for me to remain aggressive, obv.

taking those into consideration, AT is a bit loose for me, but i dont think others are quite as weak/tight up there. and, again, thats where i need to loosen up a bit, imo.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Lance
Old 03-27-2009, 06:06 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Huh,
UTG raises, CO 3bets and you 4-bet from BB !
I dont know who is a fish but whenever i see this situation i put BB on a huge hand (AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AK maybe AQs).
Maybe at higher stakes it is much more aggressive than at lower stakes (1/2...0.5/1)

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
well,
is that a good move to call this dry flop ?
Yes, he has 2 good overcards and a backdoor str8, he is getting 13.5-1 on his call. It would be correct to call with 3 outs (which he had).
What backdoor str8 ? 34567 ? In best case he has only 3 outs (as you said) so he needs cca 16.5-1.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
Would you call the flop in his situation ?
Call, or raise. I would never fold there.
IMO this is spewing.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
I think thats a bad playing, you presented really huge hand by preflop capping and he ignores it.
This is 6max. A fish posted utg and instaraised. He tried to isolate him, and i 3bet him (technically its a cap, but the first raise is not even worth mentioning). I dont see why it has to be a huge hand.
He doesnt need to be a fish from reason of posting. BUT still he raised from UTG, it deserves a little respect for CO player. Just cant imagine that he is isolating him with hand like T9s.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe" (Albert Einstein)
 
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asdpikas
Old 03-27-2009, 07:45 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
Huh,
UTG raises, CO 3bets and you 4-bet from BB !
I dont know who is a fish but whenever i see this situation i put BB on a huge hand (AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AK maybe AQs).
Maybe at higher stakes it is much more aggressive than at lower stakes (1/2...0.5/1)

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
well,
is that a good move to call this dry flop ?
Yes, he has 2 good overcards and a backdoor str8, he is getting 13.5-1 on his call. It would be correct to call with 3 outs (which he had).
What backdoor str8 ? 34567 ? In best case he has only 3 outs (as you said) so he needs cca 16.5-1.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
Would you call the flop in his situation ?
Call, or raise. I would never fold there.
IMO this is spewing.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
I think thats a bad playing, you presented really huge hand by preflop capping and he ignores it.
This is 6max. A fish posted utg and instaraised. He tried to isolate him, and i 3bet him (technically its a cap, but the first raise is not even worth mentioning). I dont see why it has to be a huge hand.
He doesnt need to be a fish from reason of posting. BUT still he raised from UTG, it deserves a little respect for CO player. Just cant imagine that he is isolating him with hand like T9s.
LOL
your post is a beauty... you dont even know break-even pot odds for 3 outs (14.3 - 1) or what a backdoor str8 is.

But yes, MAYBE the utg 6max poster is not a fish... maybe i am
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Lance
Old 03-27-2009, 08:32 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asdpikas
LOL
your post is a beauty... you dont even know break-even pot odds for 3 outs (14.3 - 1) or what a backdoor str8 is.

But yes, MAYBE the utg 6max poster is not a fish... maybe i am
I didnt know that backdoor str8 A2345 is so important to taking into account sry.
16.5 - 1 = (100 / (3outs x 2) i calcaculated. Again sry for my rough estimation.

I just more respect preflop 3-bets...thats all
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe" (Albert Einstein)
 
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Chopper
Old 03-29-2009, 05:03 PM #16 (permalink)  
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here's my contribution...

PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, 6
3 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls

Flop: (4.5 SB) K, 8, 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (2.25 BB) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls

River: (4.25 BB) J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls

Total pot: $12.50 (6.25 BB) | Rake: $0.50

Results in white below:
Hero had A, 6 (flush, King high).
BB mucked 7, 8 (one pair, eights).
Outcome: Hero won $12
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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asdpikas
Old 03-29-2009, 07:50 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
here's my contribution...
it is pretty thin indeed, once he calls the turn, i check river behind so often....
but his call down is just terrible, wow, NH
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Chopper
Old 03-29-2009, 09:13 PM #18 (permalink)  
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i thought about it, too. but, i felt the only spade that doesnt raise is the 7s or 9s. surely, the Ts raises the turn? i figure since he calls the turn, he calls the river, too......and gets noted as superstation. obv, if he raises the river, i fold.......and call myself a spewtard for taking the shot.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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asdpikas
Old 03-30-2009, 03:26 AM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
i thought about it, too. but, i felt the only spade that doesnt raise is the 7s or 9s. surely, the Ts raises the turn? i figure since he calls the turn, he calls the river, too......and gets noted as superstation. obv, if he raises the river, i fold.......and call myself a spewtard for taking the shot.
yeah, good thoughts, although not all villains will raise without the As, but then u dont lose too much and can still "note" him
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Chopper
Old 03-30-2009, 01:07 PM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asdpikas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
i thought about it, too. but, i felt the only spade that doesnt raise is the 7s or 9s. surely, the Ts raises the turn? i figure since he calls the turn, he calls the river, too......and gets noted as superstation. obv, if he raises the river, i fold.......and call myself a spewtard for taking the shot.
yeah, good thoughts, although not all villains will raise without the As, but then u dont lose too much and can still "note" him
agreed, but from what i've found, the painted flushes here cant resist a river raise....kind of a slowplayed marginal hand. i hate it when it happens to me, but its kind of rare, and those that do this "wait till the river" crap are easy to note up, and therefore, plan ahead for.

this brings up another question... the one's that "wait till the river?" how do we get more value from them? we cant be afraid of them raising, but it gets hard to valuebet thinly in marginal spots when the river completes draws, ya know? do we generally fire into them anyway, or do we give up some value (to avoid the river raise) by checking off those boards?
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Chopper
Old 04-02-2009, 05:25 AM #21 (permalink)  
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here's another for you, pal. where you at lately? you start this thread and i know outchip you 2 to 1? c'mon....lets get some thinnys in here...

i knew my flush would be good on the flop.

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($13.25)
MP2 ($29)
MP3 ($5.50)
CO ($23.25)
Button ($40.75)
SB ($27.65)
Hero (BB) ($17.25)
UTG ($56.80)
UTG+1 ($34.10)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, J
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Button calls $0.50, SB calls $0.25, Hero checks

Flop: ($2) 5, A, 4 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.50, MP2 raises to $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, MP2 calls $0.50

Turn: ($5) 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $1, MP2 calls $1

River: ($7) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $1, MP2 calls $1

Total pot: $9 | Rake: $0.25

Results in white below:
Hero had A, J (flush, Ace high).
MP2 didn't show
Outcome: Hero won $8.75
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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asdpikas
Old 04-05-2009, 11:11 AM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
this brings up another question... the one's that "wait till the river?" how do we get more value from them? we cant be afraid of them raising, but it gets hard to valuebet thinly in marginal spots when the river completes draws, ya know? do we generally fire into them anyway, or do we give up some value (to avoid the river raise) by checking off those boards?
take more free showdowns against them. You trade your "thin" value for their "strong" value. So, you dont valuebet those thin ones, and may lose a bit of value, but they lose TONS by not raising their strong hands earlier and having their nut hands go check check on the river. This actually gives you lots of $$$$
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asdpikas
Old 04-05-2009, 11:14 AM #23 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
here's another for you, pal. where you at lately? you start this thread and i know outchip you 2 to 1?
I'm ill... Have to stay in bed most of the time... Only doing basic grinding when i'm not, couldnt bother to check FTR much.
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asdpikas
Old 04-05-2009, 11:17 AM #24 (permalink)  
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1/2 Limit Holdem
3 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
BTN ($75.85)
SB ($20.80)
Hero (BB) ($50.00)

Pre-flop: (1.5 SB, 3 players) Hero is BB
BTN calls, SB bets, Hero calls, BTN calls

Flop: (6.0 SB, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: (3.0 BB, 3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, BTN folds

River: (5.0 BB, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls

Final Pot: 7.0 BB
Hero shows:

Hero wins 6.7 BB ( won +3.7 BB )
SB lost 3.0 BB
BTN lost 1.0 BB
"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
 
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Chopper
Old 04-05-2009, 12:56 PM #25 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asdpikas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
here's another for you, pal. where you at lately? you start this thread and i know outchip you 2 to 1?
I'm ill... Have to stay in bed most of the time... Only doing basic grinding when i'm not, couldnt bother to check FTR much.
sorry to hear that. hope you are feeling better now.

and, 1/2? is that because you are sick, or better game selection?
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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asdpikas
Old 04-05-2009, 02:07 PM #26 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
and, 1/2? is that because you are sick, or better game selection?
OnGame NW bonus whoring. I had a small roll there and got max cashback and a $1k bonus because of the crypto merge. The bonus expires, but i'm not feeling well enough to play higher, so i play that.
These days havent done much except some FTP 3/6 to keep the iron man and this OnGame thing.
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