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working on my weak river play plz comment these hands

  
 
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StinkyBeaver
Old 06-22-2005, 11:19 PM     Post subject: working on my weak river play plz comment these hands #1 (permalink)  
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First off all I think that I'm correct to just call the flop instead of building a pot which might give str8 and flush draws correct odds to call the turn.

Turn: even though the Jack is not the nicest of cards I knew I had to raise but how about capping..?

River: just call down..?

This is the table sucker I'm up against I've seen him make some pretty awful plays, but still I prefer to go in call down mode after 3-bet on turn.


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K.
1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 8, 3, 9 (4 players)
MP1 bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) J (4 players)
MP1 bets, MP3 folds, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (11.25 BB) 9 (3 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB
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StinkyBeaver
Old 06-22-2005, 11:35 PM #2 (permalink)  
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If we could try and ignore my preflop call here which I think is bad even though button clearly could be on a steal.

I think I'm beeing the biggest wush ever on the river. I'm only beat by a larger flush or a full house here. But when I pushed check I just remember thinking which hand is he 3-betting / calling a cap with that I beat now the board is paired.

The correct move must be to bet/call.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3, 7.
5 folds, Button raises, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 5, T, 6 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) A (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Button folds, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

River: (12.50 BB) A (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB
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TylerK
Old 06-23-2005, 03:19 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Hand 1, why are you not raising the flop?
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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chardrian
Old 06-23-2005, 03:32 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Hand 1 - I raise the flop and then play it the same way.

Hand 2 - What do you think he is three-betting you with on the turn?
I guess I don't understand why you would cap the turn and then check the river unless you thought he had trips (which he clearly didn't). I woulda called the 3 bet and then checked the river. (Fold the flop tho and u don't get in this mess at all).
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Nehmer
Old 06-23-2005, 04:13 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chardrian
(Fold the flop tho and u don't get in this mess at all).
Why in the world would you fold the flop with both a flush and inside straight draw? Unless you meant to say preflop in which case I agree.
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StinkyBeaver
Old 06-23-2005, 06:19 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chardrian
Hand 1 - I raise the flop and then play it the same way.

Hand 2 - What do you think he is three-betting you with on the turn?
I guess I don't understand why you would cap the turn and then check the river unless you thought he had trips (which he clearly didn't). I woulda called the 3 bet and then checked the river. (Fold the flop tho and u don't get in this mess at all).
I think he could be 3-betting any set any top two pair or if he is aggressive enough he'll even raise TPTK now that he got it against the blinds.
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StinkyBeaver
Old 06-23-2005, 06:23 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerK
Hand 1, why are you not raising the flop?
Well according to SSH it can be correct to call the flop in order to raise turn because you can exploit an even bigger fault in the other players game this way.

However I'm not certain this is the correct hand to imply this in, given the fact that KK has a lot of equity on the flop and I should be raising al the way till river unless I meet resistense or the board gets even more cordinated.
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TylerK
Old 06-23-2005, 06:31 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinkyBeaver
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerK
Hand 1, why are you not raising the flop?
Well according to SSH it can be correct to call the flop in order to raise turn because you can exploit an even bigger fault in the other players game this way.

However I'm not certain this is the correct hand to imply this in, given the fact that KK has a lot of equity on the flop and I should be raising al the way till river unless I meet resistense or the board gets even more cordinated.
Yeah, I would reread that "two overpair hands" section of SSH again and give it some more thought.
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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StinkyBeaver
Old 06-23-2005, 04:29 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Just read that section and no clearly I should have raised the flop. How about the river bet this or is it ok to check.

Reason why I didn't bet it was because I didn't think I could call a raise here.
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TylerK
Old 06-23-2005, 07:07 PM #10 (permalink)  
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I think the river call is ok, for the same reasons you mentioned.
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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StinkyBeaver
Old 06-23-2005, 11:38 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Will I ever learn to bet the river for value.....

Clearly the correct line must be to bet/call

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7, 5.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 3, 6, 4 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 8 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, MP1 calls.

River: (9 BB) 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks.

Final Pot: 9 BB
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Gatlin Dan
Old 06-24-2005, 05:36 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinkyBeaver
Will I ever learn to bet the river for value.....
The hand you fear they have is seldom the hand they truly have. Remember the action on previous streets. How they played it will give you valuable clues to whether or not the river helped them. If you are going to call his river bet, it is almost always right to bet the river yourself. When in doubt, bet the river.

"A lot of fortunes are made on what you don't play."--"Miami" John Cernuto
 
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