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Why it can be fun to raise and cap kq suited in a family pot

  
 
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littleogre
Old 12-13-2007, 02:34 PM     Post subject: Why it can be fun to raise and cap kq suited in a family pot #1 (permalink)  

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 FullTiltPoker Game #4488160196: Table Maggie - $0.25/$0.50 - Limit Hold'em - 10:24:22 ET - 2007/12/13
Seat 1: Rosebiche ($12.35)
Seat 2: CoSnoBny ($1.15)
Seat 3: littleogre ($6.20)
Seat 4: MistressDiva ($8.80)
Seat 5: JPM100 ($15.65)
Seat 6: Jpw2133 ($17.65)
Seat 7: RJ_405 ($1.70)
Seat 8: deftn ($27.95)
Seat 9: jakekjj ($10.50)
Jpw2133 posts the small blind of $0.10
RJ_405 posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to littleogre [Kh Qh]
deftn has 15 seconds left to act
deftn calls $0.25
jakekjj calls $0.25
Rosebiche calls $0.25
CoSnoBny calls $0.25
littleogre has 15 seconds left to act
littleogre raises to $0.50
MistressDiva calls $0.50
JPM100 raises to $0.75
Jpw2133 folds
RJ_405 folds
deftn calls $0.50
jakekjj calls $0.50
Rosebiche folds
CoSnoBny calls $0.50
littleogre has 15 seconds left to act
littleogre raises to $1
MistressDiva calls $0.50
JPM100 calls $0.25
deftn calls $0.25
jakekjj calls $0.25
CoSnoBny calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [Ts Td Kc]
deftn checks
jakekjj checks
CoSnoBny bets $0.15, and is all in
littleogre has 15 seconds left to act
littleogre raises to $0.40
MistressDiva folds
JPM100 calls $0.40
deftn calls $0.40
jakekjj calls $0.40
*** TURN *** [Ts Td Kc] [Kd]
deftn checks
jakekjj checks
littleogre bets $0.50
JPM100 folds
deftn calls $0.50
jakekjj folds
*** RIVER *** [Ts Td Kc Kd] [Ah]
deftn checks
littleogre bets $0.50
deftn calls $0.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
littleogre shows [Kh Qh] a full house, Kings full of Tens
deftn mucks
littleogre wins the side pot ($2.85) with a full house, Kings full of Tens
CoSnoBny mucks
littleogre wins the main pot ($7) with a full house, Kings full of Tens
CoSnoBny is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $10.35 Main pot $7.35. Side pot $3. | Rake $0.50
Board: [Ts Td Kc Kd Ah]
Seat 1: Rosebiche folded before the Flop
Seat 2: CoSnoBny mucked [Tc 3c] - a full house, Tens full of Kings
Seat 3: littleogre showed [Kh Qh] and won ($9.85) with a full house, Kings full of Tens
Seat 4: MistressDiva folded on the Flop
Seat 5: JPM100 (button) folded on the Turn
Seat 6: Jpw2133 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: RJ_405 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: deftn mucked [8d 7d] - two pair, Kings and Tens
Seat 9: jakekjj folded on the Turn
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Jibalob
Old 12-13-2007, 08:04 PM #2 (permalink)  
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The cap is a spew and acheives nothing.

From the HHs that you've posted I would say you waaayyyy overvalue KQ
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Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
 
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littleogre
Old 12-14-2007, 01:33 AM #3 (permalink)  

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littleogre has a little shameless behaviour in the past
 actully several book i have read say that it is correct to raise big suited connectors in family pot. Although they prefer that we are on the button or co. Basically these hands play so well in pots with several people seeing the flop that every bet has equity.
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Jibalob
Old 12-14-2007, 08:07 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleogre
actully several book i have read say that it is correct to raise big suited connectors in family pot. Although they prefer that we are on the button or co. Basically these hands play so well in pots with several people seeing the flop that every bet has equity.
Yes, it's fine to raise for value or to build a pot for straight and flush draws when you're in LP, but capping here still acheives nothing IMO.

You are most likely behind here preflop and there are already 17 small bets in the pot by the time it comes back round for you on the 3-bet, you will have odds to call pretty much any longshot draw on the flop alreay.
PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
 
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euphoricism
Old 12-14-2007, 03:48 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Cap was OK simply because of the incredible amounts of dead money in there. But its probably better to just call the 3bet OOP.

Flop is way more interesting than preflop.
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Hermann the Lombard
Old 12-14-2007, 04:23 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Hermann the Lombard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibalob
Yes, it's fine to raise for value or to build a pot for straight and flush draws when you're in LP, but capping here still acheives nothing IMO.
I wouldn't cap, but it occurs to me: what *is* the equity situation here? It may not be tactically useful, but is that last raise +EV or -EV? I don't know how to calculate this.
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arborman
Old 12-15-2007, 09:45 PM #7 (permalink)  
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arborman
You really need to use the hand converter, reading hand histories is painful when there is a better way. It also covers the names of the players (including yours, if you were to desire anonymity).
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Jibalob
Old 12-16-2007, 11:39 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermann the Lombard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibalob
Yes, it's fine to raise for value or to build a pot for straight and flush draws when you're in LP, but capping here still acheives nothing IMO.
I wouldn't cap, but it occurs to me: what *is* the equity situation here? It may not be tactically useful, but is that last raise +EV or -EV? I don't know how to calculate this.
I would guess that this is ***marginally*** +EV thinking about it.

The problem is that you are looking for the nut straight, a flush, or a complete miracle board otherwise you most likely have a 2nd best hand that will cost you dearly post-flop.
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Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
 
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dsaxton
Old 12-17-2007, 12:19 AM #9 (permalink)  
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It's fun to cap K-Q preflop because you might make a full house?
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littleogre
Old 12-17-2007, 02:29 AM #10 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
It's fun to cap K-Q preflop because you might make a full house?
No it's fun because it is +ev don't believe read advanced holdem or several other books. Basically if you have suited connectors and several people already in the pot you should always raise. I will assume that you understand why. If not thats to bad seeing as how you saw fit to insult me and make an ass of yourself. Oh and this play works best when you have j/10 on the button
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Jibalob
Old 12-17-2007, 09:07 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Jibalob
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleogre
Basically if you have suited connectors and several people already in the pot you should always raise
Wrong IMO
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Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
 
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littleogre
Old 12-17-2007, 09:52 AM #12 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibalob
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleogre
Basically if you have suited connectors and several people already in the pot you should always raise
Wrong IMO
Well i'm honestly not sure if it really makes a huge diffrence wether you raise or call but understand that i'm not just talking out of my ass. Also i apreciate all coments wether they agree or disagree. Well save for one poster inpaticular who decided that he needed to make a unconstructive ad snide comment
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littleogre
Old 12-17-2007, 10:05 AM #13 (permalink)  

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littleogre has a little shameless behaviour in the past
 also i did slightly misused the play as it is better served when in lp but i think i mentioned that earlier
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Jibalob
Old 12-17-2007, 10:55 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleogre
also i did slightly misused the play as it is better served when in lp but i think i mentioned that earlier
Yeah, I think we've had this discussion in another thread recently.

I don't really hate the cap to be honest, I just don't like it that much either.

I might make this play on the button or CO once in a while (depending on opponents tendancies etc) but not in mp. Like I said before, my problem isnt with the equity/value preflop but that it will be very difficult to get away from a 2nd best hand post-flop.

I also don't hate the cap as much since I re-read the HH (use converter please )
PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
 
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littleogre
Old 12-17-2007, 11:17 AM #15 (permalink)  

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 Full Tilt 0.25/0.5 Hold'em (9 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K, Q.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, CO calls, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Hero caps, CO calls, Button calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (28.40 SB) T, T, K (6 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets $0.15 (All-In), Hero raises, CO folds, Button calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (17.70 BB) K (5 players, 1 all-in)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, Button folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds.

River: (19.70 BB) A (3 players, 1 all-in)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 21.70 BB
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Jibalob
Old 12-17-2007, 11:22 AM #16 (permalink)  
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sooo much better
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Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
 
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