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Ragnar4
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08-01-2006, 07:48 AM
Post subject: Why is it:
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Why is it that when I tell someone about the concept of "overlay" they all look at me like I'm nuts.
Just tonight I'm in a hand against a girl sitting to my right. Pure calling station action all night. She and I had been chattin' away, and we ended up in a hand where I flopped the nut straight with 2 diamonds on the board. I bet, some other dude calls, she calls. I know she's on a nut flush draw with diamonds, becuause she's been playing predictably. I lean over just before the turn came and I say "you shouldn't be calling." next card comes blank. final card plops her diamond down. She scoops the pot.
She says to me. "So hows that shoe taste" in between drinks of her beer. I say, "no I wasn't wrong. you should have been raising from the button" She looks at me crazy. So I explain the entire concept of overlay to her. She's a bright girl. And the first goddam thing she asks me is: "Well what if I miss?"
How simply do you have to explain to someone that if they are going to win more than their fair share of the time, they should be raising??? Flush draw wins 38% of the time with 2 diamonds in the hand and 2 on the flop. you're responsible for 33% of the pot, therefore, every dollar that goes into the pot you make 5 cents. So the more dollars that go into the pot with 3 players at the flop, the more money you make, at 5 cent increments.
She looks at me after a few seconds and says; "But what if I miss". I tried to explain to her that she made 5 cents on the dollar even though she lost the hand and didn't scoop the pot, because next time you win money and scoop the pot you actually make more than 5 cents, per dollar, it just "evens out over time to be around 5 cents". But she glazed over... Poked me on the nose and said, "how many beers have you had tonight hun?"
Try to help someone out, and they just think you're silly.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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I dont like to educate the masses.
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Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
I dont like to educate the masses.
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Then why have you made so many good posts here? 
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nehmer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
I dont like to educate the masses.
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Then why have you made so many good posts here? |
Since when are they any good???? Most of the things I say are just regurgitated shit that have been asked time in and time out over the past couple years.
Believe me, I hold back a lot rofl. In vent tho, I give all the advice anyone would (or wouldn't) like.
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Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
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arkitekton
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 269
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Quote:
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Why is it that when I tell someone about the concept of "overlay" they all look at me like I'm nuts.
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Because you're failing to realize that people are just monkeys with less hair?
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Try to help someone out, and they just think you're silly.
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To take this perfectly seriously, one really has to pick ones spots when offering help. Most people aren't interested, can't grasp what smart guys like us consider rudimentary concepts, and so on and so on. I prefer to think of it as realistic rather than cynical, but except in emergencies, I'll help if someone asks for help--otherwise, I have a few hundred things I enjoy more than beating my head against the wall of someone else's (often self-willed) limitations.
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thenonsequitur
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08-01-2006, 10:00 PM
Post subject: Re: Why is it:
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#6 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
...Pure calling station...
...2 diamonds on the board...
...I bet, some other dude calls, she calls. I know she's on a nut flush draw with diamonds...
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So she's a pure calling station yet you are able to put her on exactly the nut flush draw because she called a bet on the flop?
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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don't tap the glass
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Yeah. She'd only been playing suited connectors all night, and she wouldn't draw to anything other than the nuts, since the 2 diamonds were 7 and 2, I figgured she had Ace poop diamonds. Even calling stations can be read.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
Yeah. She'd only been playing suited connectors all night, and she wouldn't draw to anything other than the nuts, since the 2 diamonds were 7 and 2, I figgured she had Ace poop diamonds. Even calling stations can be read.
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If she wouldn't draw to anything other than the nuts, she's not really a calling station is she? Sounds more like a wierd tight/passive rock to me that plays too many suited connectors and not enough other stuff.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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lol. Quite possibly. I thought a "Calling station" was simply someone who never raised, even when they had the best of it. I saw her limp and call AA all the way down. All night she raised once. When she did have the nuts on the river. Maybe I used the wrong term.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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If we're having a serious discussion about poker at the table, I try to ask lots of questions, listen and agree/validate/re-enforce anything you say.
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Warpe
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08-02-2006, 09:13 PM
Post subject: Re: Why is it:
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#12 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
Poked me on the nose and said, "how many beers have you had tonight hun?"
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was she hot?
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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way hot
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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sinky
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SCOTLAND
Posts: 295
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
way hot
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Then you are wrong and she is right.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
If we're having a serious discussion about poker at the table, I try to ask lots of questions, listen and agree/validate/re-enforce anything you say.
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Yup, online poker can't be legit. Cuz, I mean, then you would think all the live pros would be able to beat it.
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Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
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arkitekton
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 269
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rofl--I knew that's what this was all about
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Kessler
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 117
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I agree that overlay is way too advanced of a topic to try to explain to someone that may or may not care to play poker the "right" way. There's enough folks out there that like to just sit down and see if they win. Starting hand selection, odds, outs, etc... No idea. Don't know, don't care. I would probably test the water a bit and ask "Hey, do you know how big that pot is?" The answer to that question might give you some insight to if you'd want to start a discussion on strategy in the first place. And I personally think it's bad form to instruct a player what to do AT the same table, and particularly someone you're IN a hand with.
Also, If you're trying to get in her pants by showing off your advanced poker prowess, forget it. Tell her a touching story about how you saved a baby bird from your neighbors cat and ask if she'd like to do a shot of tequila with you. Works much better. 
-Kes
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If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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You talk to her about "overlay" and couldn't find a way to bring the conversation around to sex? Think man, THINK.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Aye.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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To suggest that it's bad form to instruct someone at the poker table that you're in a hand with is 99% true, and I do appreciate that you pointed that out. The whole of the story is, she's a Dealer at the Blackjack tables where I play, and she sits in. She's well known by everyone at the table, and we have a very friendly environment. There are only about20 guys that play regularly there, and there are rarely more than 2 tables ever playing during peak hours.
This gal gets advice from everyone, and this is no different a situation. I was more pissed because she takes bad advice from guys tryin' to get into her pants, and not good advice from the guy who's got a girlfriend that he loves very much. It's odd.
She's expressed interest many times at wanting to know how to play better... Then she treats me like one of the guys that hits on her...
In thinking about it, though, I'm not gonna be a dick about it, but I'm tired of helping people at the table. I'm there to take their damn money, they want to learn from me, they can learn as I'm showing down winners in huge pots, and taking down the little ones by outplaying them.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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You should slip her a piece of paper that says:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...holdem-39.html
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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That is, if you don't want her money.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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lmao... good one.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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