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when to try to checkraise river, and when to bet out ?

  
 
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pokerlearner
Old 05-07-2005, 08:53 AM     Post subject: when to try to checkraise river, and when to bet out ? #1 (permalink)  
Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: california
Posts: 366
pokerlearner
Hi,

I have this bad case of FPS (fancy player syndrome ). Please see hand 5. I wasted at least 2 bets (definitely 1 bet) on the river, trying to checkraise and it gets all checked around.

Usually i have altered my tactic since my distastrous showing in past few weeks. I now wait till the turn to checkraise when I have TPTK, or flush draw. I usually will not try to check raise the river, unless the board is a bit coordinated and i have the nuts or near nuts.

Now the problem is, what should be the cases where its good play to try to check raise rather than just bet out and hope you are raised so you can reraise. I seem to be making a lot of these mistakes.

I have noticed that a lot of the times i check the river when i have the best hand but am fearing a 2 pair (ie not value betting the river enough), and sometimes i check the river hoping to checkraise and the damn thing gets checked all around.



-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hand 1:

Was my preflop play incorrect. sometimes I cold call with baby pocket pair and sometimes i dont. and especially here i saw a lot of people limp in who will call that extra bet so i would go to flop with 4-5 people, good enough odds to flop that set ??
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4, 4.
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 3-bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (19 SB) 4, T, A (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 raises, MP2 folds, CO 3-bets, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG caps, UTG+2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (17.50 BB) 9 (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 calls, CO calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, CO calls.

River: (25.50 BB) 6 (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 29.50 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has 4d 4s (three of a kind, fours).
UTG has Th Kh (flush, ace high).
UTG+2 has Jc Ad (one pair, aces).
CO has 8h Qh (flush, ace high).
Outcome: UTG wins 29.50 BB.
-------------------------------
Hand 2:

No need to slow play here as board is scary. Should I have just bet out on river, as it seems no one seems to have the flush or i would have been raised. chances are high it could be all checked around on river ??
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, A.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7 SB) K, T, J (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 2 (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP2 calls.

River: (8 BB) J (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Qd As (straight, ace high).
BB has Kd 8c (two pair, kings and jacks).
MP2 has 9c Th (two pair, jacks and tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 14 BB.
---------------------------------------
Hand 3:

No read. Just a random play.
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9, 9.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, Hero calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7, 2, 2 (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+2 folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) Q (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls.

River: (7.50 BB) K (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Results in white below:
MP2 has As Jh (one pair, twos).
Hero has 9s 9d (two pair, nines and twos).
Outcome: Hero wins 9.50 BB.
-----------------------------------------
Hand 4:

Should I be afraid at the turn ?? Raise the flop. These days I am most of the times waiting till the turn to raise as it gets more respect than a flop raise.
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, Q.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, MP1 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) J, 5, 8 (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8 (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 4 (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Qc Qs (two pair, queens and eights).
Button doesn't show.
SB has 5d 5s (full house, fives full of eights).
Outcome: SB wins 14.50 BB.
------------------------------------------------
Hand 5:

Horrible play. Turn check is probably ok. i was hoping to check raise the river.
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, J.
Hero raises, 3 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A, 8, 6 (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) T (4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

River: (6.25 BB) J (4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

Results in white below:
BB has 8d 9c (one pair, eights).
Hero has Jh Jc (three of a kind, jacks).
MP3 has Kc 8c (one pair, eights).
Button has Ad 3d (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins 6.25 BB.
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Room
Old 05-07-2005, 03:00 PM #2 (permalink)  
Straight

Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 197
Room
Hand 1: Preflop call is debateable since you will be first to act for future betting rounds. Its also hard to protect your hand since the pot is very large and your opponents will have odds to chase their draws.

Hand 2: Bet out, hope to get reraised. Someone holding 2 pair with the jack - or the flush - would have raised on the turn.

Hand 3: Raise preflop, raise flop, bet turn, call river bet unless you have a convincing reason not to.

Hand 4: Raise the flop.

Hand 5: Turn check is ok. Bet the river. A player with KQ would probably bet this turn. 2nd best hands will call after your turn weakness.
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Fnord
Old 05-07-2005, 03:03 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Room
Hand 1: Preflop call is debateable since you will be first to act for future betting rounds.
Pre-flop is standard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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