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When a silly slowplay/trap backfires

  
 
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ArcticKnight
Old 01-29-2006, 01:27 AM     Post subject: When a silly slowplay/trap backfires #1 (permalink)  
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It' s hard to believe this OPP is trying this play at 10/20 (actually, I take that back - it's not hard to believe). I got very lucky, and never knew I was behind until the turn raise..and then was not totally sure.

Anyway, I don't know which was worse...the limp with AA, or holding off to the turn to get aggressive.

Anyway, as they say "never let the blinds play for free"

PS. I thought about checking the river with intent to raise, but thought if the turn gave him a str8 or flush draw, he'd just check behind on the missed river.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with T, 3.
2 folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) T, 5, K (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) T (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Tc 3c (three of a kind, tens).
Button has Ad Ac (two pair, aces and tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 8.50 BB.
Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........
 
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midas06
Old 01-29-2006, 02:15 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Heh, nh sir.

How not to play AA.
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dsaxton
Old 01-29-2006, 02:34 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Obviously raising on the button when it's folded to you indicates a monster, so he decides to hide his strength by just smooth calling. His only mistake is neglecting to raise on the river as well. I mean, he had a pair of aces.
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bencathers
Old 01-29-2006, 03:13 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton
Obviously raising on the button when it's folded to you indicates a monster, so he decides to hide his strength by just smooth calling. His only mistake is neglecting to raise on the river as well. I mean, he had a pair of aces.
probably one of the funniest lines i've read on this site. NH sir. Can I nominate this for an FTR award or something?

And yes, its not shocking for 10/20. I'm mainly a 5/10 (and 2/4er when drunk/tilting ) but I played a few 10/20 games and was well, shocked (in a good way, of course)

edit, jesus. short stacks at 10/20

PokerStars Game #3768394081: Holdem Limit ($10/$20) - 2006/01/26 - 23:36:50 (ET)
Table Hercules II Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: role5 ($238 in chips)
Seat 2: bencathers ($507 in chips)
Seat 3: CJ85 ($980.50 in chips)
Seat 6: rolodinero ($85 in chips)
CJ85: posts small blind $5
rolodinero: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bencathers [5c 4c]
role5: calls $10
bencathers: calls $10
CJ85: folds
rolodinero: checks
*** FLOP *** [Kd 3s 2s]
rolodinero: bets $10
role5: calls $10
bencathers: calls $10
*** TURN *** [Kd 3s 2s] [6d]
rolodinero: bets $20
role5: folds
bencathers: raises $20 to $40
rolodinero: calls $20
*** RIVER *** [Kd 3s 2s 6d] [8c]
rolodinero: checks
bencathers: bets $20
rolodinero: raises $5 to $25 and is all-in
bencathers: calls $5
*** SHOW DOWN ***
rolodinero: shows [8d 3d] (two pair, Eights and Threes)
bencathers: shows [5c 4c] (a straight, Deuce to Six)
bencathers collected $193 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $195 | Rake $2
Board [Kd 3s 2s 6d 8c]
Seat 1: role5 folded on the Turn
Seat 2: bencathers (button) showed [5c 4c] and won ($193) with a straight, Deuce to Six
Seat 3: CJ85 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: rolodinero (big blind) showed [8d 3d] and lost with two pair, Eights and Threes

he check raised me because YES FINALLY HE HIT TWO PAIR AFTER RAISING WITH BOTTOM PAIR NO KICKER. he was going to show me and my pair of Kings a thing or two (oh wait, didn't have that. dammnit, by in for more next time... well he did, but oh well)
Dealer: bencathers has two pair, Aces and Deuces
Dealer: Tbags has two pair, Kings and Jacks
Dealer: Tbags finished the tournament in 256th place
Tbags [observer]: another scumbag gets there on this site lol
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-29-2006, 03:42 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 Probably would have folded the turn there. Its the perfect bet/fold situation. Nice suckout.


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Miffed22001
Old 01-29-2006, 05:44 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 horrible turn call imo
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koolmoe
Old 01-29-2006, 06:07 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Probably would have folded the turn there. Its the perfect bet/fold situation. Nice suckout.
It's also a good spot for the button to semibluff since a number of draws just picked up outs. Definitely need a read, but an aggressive opponent who likes to make tricky plays like open limping AA on the button is someone I hate folding to when I have a piece of the board or a live draw.

But...if I call the turn raise, I'm check-raising the river 100% of the time since it is only a good call if Button's turn raise is a bluff a large percentage of the time, and in those cases I would like to induce another bluff on the river.
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koolmoe
Old 01-29-2006, 06:19 PM     Post subject: Re: When a silly slowplay/trap backfires #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticKnight
Anyway, I don't know which was worse...the limp with AA, or holding off to the turn to get aggressive.
Someone who is willing to limp AA isn't afraid of giving free cards, especially when his opponent will call down with a marginal holding. By waiting until the turn to get aggressive he gets you to put in more money when you are even further behind (as opposed to raising the flop).

What is bad is that he gives the SB pretty good odds to call the flop with lots of weak holdings. Heads up I don't think it's a terrible play against an aggressive player who will make loose calls on the big streets, which appears to describe your play in this hand.

All that said, I would never play AA that way. I'd rather play to get lots of bets in on some hands even at the cost of getting no action on others.
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-29-2006, 06:27 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koolmoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Probably would have folded the turn there. Its the perfect bet/fold situation. Nice suckout.
It's also a good spot for the button to semibluff since a number of draws just picked up outs. Definitely need a read, but an aggressive opponent who likes to make tricky plays like open limping AA on the button is someone I hate folding to when I have a piece of the board or a live draw.
Possibly. But I still fold here if I have no read that he's a maniac.


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ArcticKnight
Old 01-29-2006, 07:23 PM     Post subject: Re: When a silly slowplay/trap backfires #10 (permalink)  
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ArcticKnight
Quote:
Originally Posted by koolmoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticKnight
Anyway, I don't know which was worse...the limp with AA, or holding off to the turn to get aggressive.
Someone who is willing to limp AA isn't afraid of giving free cards, especially when his opponent will call down with a marginal holding. By waiting until the turn to get aggressive he gets you to put in more money when you are even further behind (as opposed to raising the flop).

What is bad is that he gives the SB pretty good odds to call the flop with lots of weak holdings. Heads up I don't think it's a terrible play against an aggressive player who will make loose calls on the big streets, which appears to describe your play in this hand.

All that said, I would never play AA that way. I'd rather play to get lots of bets in on some hands even at the cost of getting no action on others.
As far as reads, let's remember I'm not putting him on a big Ace or Kx on a limp from the button. Also, which I should have mentioned, he played a turn draw with a raise at least twice heads-up (once against me). It's a semi-bluff approach that is not uncommon by some six max players, if they think it gives them a chance to make you fold, and you have the flush or OESD as a 1 in 5 back-up. I think some folks misapply the guidance in SSH on Protecting draws and buying outs and forget about the need for multi-way action. (they also forget about the need of overcards, but that's another matter) Anyway, he seemed prone to this type of play.

Seeing as the turn card gave the board a flush draw and an OESD, and a limp might be consistent with some small suited and/or connected trash, then I'm completing the raise on the turn here.

I aggree 100% though, koolmoe, that absent reads, I should fold the turn aggression.
Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........
 
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koolmoe
Old 01-29-2006, 08:14 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Possibly. But I still fold here if I have no read that he's a maniac.
That's a good policy because when you are ahead, your opponent probably has a large number of outs, but when you are behind you never have more than 6 outs (5 to win or 3 to win and 6 to chop) but often will be drawing dead or close to it.

One adjustment I make is that, if I have folded to a few turn raises recently, especially to the opponent in the hand, I am more likely to call down.
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-29-2006, 08:30 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koolmoe
One adjustment I make is that, if I have folded to a few turn raises recently, especially to the opponent in the hand, I am more likely to call down.
Definately. Also, it might be better to fold this time but call next time.


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