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When should I have folded this?

  
 
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sarbox68
Old 10-20-2006, 09:11 PM     Post subject: When should I have folded this? #1 (permalink)  
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Hands like this have been the story of the last two weeks for me. Haven't had a single winning session in 20+. Think it's time to quit and take up crocheting....

At what point should I have folded and said "Oh... you got the one hand on the turn that can beat me......" This also tends to make me less willing to get aggressive with big hands as my stats are that I lose many more of them (for subsequently bigger losses...) than I win. This is a perfect example.....

Poker Room skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with T T
UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls (3.5:2), 3 folds, Hero calls (5.5:2), SB calls (7.5:1.5), BB folds.

Flop: 6 T K (9SB, 4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, MP1 calls (10:1), Hero raises, SB calls (13:2), UTG 3-bets, MP1 calls (17:2), Hero calls (19:1), SB caps, UTG calls (22:1), MP1 calls (23:1), Hero calls (24:1).

Turn: 6 (12.5BB, 4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, MP1 calls (13.5:1), Hero raises, SB calls (16.5:2), UTG 3-bets, MP1 calls (20.5:2), Hero calls (22.5:1), SB calls (23.5:1).

River: A (24.5BB, 4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, MP1 calls (25.5:1), Hero calls (26.5:1), SB folds.

Results:
Final pot: 27.5BB
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kyc12
Old 10-20-2006, 09:28 PM #2 (permalink)  

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kyc12
Don't fold this!! You are only behind only to AA/KK/66, you should be winning more than half the time. As played I'll probably cap the turn and evaluate the river.

Also I'd 3-bet preflop. It sucks if somone turns over AA/KK, but you are supposed to lose money if that happens.
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Xanadu
Old 10-20-2006, 09:36 PM #3 (permalink)  
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You have a good boat at limit. You can't seriously be thinking you can ever fold this without the strongest of reads on UTG. So I presume SB had a couple hearts and UTG had KK (and not a badly played AA because you are suggesting folding before the river in this results oriented post). Oh well, bad beat. The only question here is whether to slow down before the river (and at low stakes limit maybe even whether to slow down on the river at all). There is no question of ever folding hands this strong. I think you slowed down as early as is reasonable, but not capping the turn was probably a mistake. The second person in the pot adds a lot of equity when you are ahead, and that is more than 1 in 3 times.

No one loses money at poker because they can't lay down a full house when they are beat.
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bigspenda73
Old 10-20-2006, 09:57 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 Fold? try capping each street, no way am i ever folding this. Cap the turn, raise the river, and call a 3bet.
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NWNewell
Old 10-21-2006, 12:21 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Call me timid, but I'm a little worried about what UTG is leading out the turn with after SB capped his 3-bet on the flop.

There is no way I'm folding this hand... ever.

I may be inclined to slow down on the turn.

But I think I would have done exactly what you did..... raise the turn and call down after his turn 3-bet.

Not much you can do.... you'll get your money out of that hand much more often than not....
My "Operation Come Back" Thread: Interupted.
 
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Ragnar4
Old 10-21-2006, 09:25 AM #6 (permalink)  
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My cards would be folded for me after I had my heart attack thinking such a beautiful pot was mine.

YOu have such a powerful hand that you deserve if for some reason you smell Quads or a better full house to Check Call it down, and then curse yourself for missing bets 98% of the time.

Never fold this hand in Limit. Ever. Check your other post for what I had to say about your hands. Your losing sessions are NOT due to hands like this... Your losing sessions are playing too many unsuited hands out of position and not correctly evaluating post flop play. Spend 20 bucks on a book. I cannot Reccommend SSH enough.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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sarbox68
Old 10-21-2006, 06:18 PM #7 (permalink)  
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sarbox68
Thanks Rag, and did read other posts. Very much appreciate the feedback...

I've been knee-deep in WLLHE and SSHE especially for the past two months. SO much stuff to try and absorb ... forget about trying to read opps as well.... And then get repeatedy clobbered on these large hands (Lost QQQ, AAA and 999 yesterday (only sets of the week...) even though I pushed as hard and fast as possible...)

>>sigh<< and I'll stop whining and get back to reading.....

Thanks again to everyone for the feedback!
 
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Xanadu
Old 10-21-2006, 07:20 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Xanadu
Something to remember ...
In limit poker especially, it's not how you play your strong and weak hands that greatly effects your winrate. It's knowing what to do with your marginal hands that's the key. Work primarily on your post flop play and learn what to do with hands like top and second pair in different positions and with various flops. The same with draws. Learn when to bet/raise for value, when to bet/raise to protect your hand, when you should just call or fold. I haven't read WLLHE, but from what I've heard from people's pots here, it's not the best advice for a low stakes game. SSH will put you on the right track. Start out by strictly following the starting hands charts (until you understand when you should adjust away from them), and concentrate completely on the post-flop play.
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