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LawDude
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05-21-2009, 05:49 PM
Post subject: what would you do?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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30/60 at Hollywood Park. Except for CO-- kind of a fish-- everyone at the table is a pretty solid, tight player.
I am on the button with 9d8d. UTG raises, 3 players call (including CO). One of the players who folds accidentally exposes his cards, which are shown to the entire table. 9c7d.
I would normally call 2 bets in a multi-way pot in a second with 98s in position. But the exposure of that hand tells me that a lot of my outs are no good-- I have one less 9 to chase, one less diamond, and little chance of a straight flush draw. So, I folded.
You can guess what happened next. Flop was JT8 rainbow. (At this point, I imagine Mr. 97o is cursing under his breath). Turn was a blank, river was a queen, and the hand was won by a player who paired his queen on the river.
Now was I right to fold pre-flop with so many outs compromised? Or should I have called 2 bets anyway.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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i would "normally" even contemplate 3betting to disguise my hand. when the flop comes "right," i would have a huge hand or two trapped, and my deceptive sc would slaughter them when they think i am only cbetting.
however, with a 9 exposed and another diamond gone, i fold so fast it would make your head spin. solid laydown, imo.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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Raoni_Poker
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 265
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I would fold even if I did not see the other guy cards  (I'm following Sklansky!)
But I am aware that you have position and a disguised (and suited) hand that could easily trap someone.
Chopper, you mentioned you would 3-bet here. What if the flop comes wrong (for instance something like Ac-Qh-Jh) and some aggressive player bets first? would you give up or try to earn the pot?
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cohenleonard
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High Card
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 10
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good fold, the fact that you recognized the implications of the exposed hand in relation to your reason for entering the pot is great. -beyond just the fact that your 9 was gone. dont worry about the board, thats not the last time you "woulda flopped a joint" in a fireworks display. gf.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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You guys ever do the math for missing cards from the deck to complete your draws? the missing 9 is pretty much inconsequential, and the missing diamond doesn't hurt your draw at all.
Basicaly, with 20 cards in 10 different hands out against you, you expect 3 other diamonds, and one of each of your possible pair cards to be out of the deck, and it doesn't hurt your draw one bit.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Raoni_Poker
Chopper, you mentioned you would 3-bet here. What if the flop comes wrong (for instance something like Ac-Qh-Jh) and some aggressive player bets first? would you give up or try to earn the pot?
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if i whiff completely, i am just folding this flop. when you make a "deceptive" or loose 3bet, in hopes of a bigger payoff, you need to remember two things, imo:
1) only do this RARELY, if at all. by rare, i mean so rare you cant remember the last time you did something like that.
2) and, never make the mistake of trying to earn this pot. imo, there is too much strong action from ep solid players AND too many people in the pot to think i will "earn" this one.
this is a homerun or fold situation to me. i am only entering the pot with the sc because it plays so well multiway AND i have position to the players that will be likely to do the betting. this spot affords me maximum information to play my hand to the best ability......when the flop comes right.
this hand/situation should NEVER be confused with a "good spot to bluff." you have an UTG raise (by OP's read he is a 'solid' player so this is likely a pretty strong starting hand), a couple cold-callers (at least one of which is holding something like AK or 88-JJ), and the fish jumped in there, too.
so, going this big preflop, how can we resist (without seeing the flipped cards) getting involved with such a sweety of a hand?? i cant. and, because i know the others arent folding, maybe not even with UTG capping (since they already called two cold), i dont mind shoving a crapload of chips in early here. because WHEN it connects, it is extremely easy to play this hand in a huge pot. and, when it doesnt, i know i am slaughtered and cant even begin to think i will earn this pot with all that strength in there. (i view this as a 10:1 payoff, at least. it may cost me as much as 2BB preflop(capped 4sb), but it will go to possibly 20BBs by showdown with all these players in there. so, i stick in 2BB and if i miss, its not the end of the world. however, if i get paid, i will drag close to a 20BB pot, imo.)
in other words, players are NOT folding here. well, not all of them. so, we will get paid off when the flop comes good, we will have odds to draw when the flop comes good, and we will have ZERO chance at bluffing anyone out.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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rllngn
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: indiana
Posts: 30
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I would have folded, for the exposure of those 2 cards 2, now you might have goten the person with the queen to fold before the river if you bet flop and turn, but if it was a fish, he would have hit the river and all you could do is muck, way to get out of the hand, pertty sure that guy that exposed his card you should thank
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arborman
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
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rling the queen completes op's straight - kaching. the guy who snagged a pair would pay off.
I would have folded pf too, with the free information.
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