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dalecooper
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09-09-2005, 07:04 PM
Post subject: What do you think is the most beatable form of poker?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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What do you think is the most beatable form of poker? Qualifications: it has to be somewhat commonly played (games are easy to find) and by "beatable," I mean that a moderately skilled player employing a reasonable strategy can at least make a profit. In other words, what I'm interested in is the game you can make the most money at in the long term with only a modest amount of knowledge.
I do not believe this game is hold 'em. I love hold 'em, but variance can run high because how the game is constructed, and the talent level out there is too good to make the game easily beatable. Even though there are still a lot of bad players, there are more good players now than in any other type of poker, and even some of the bad ones can easily confuse you by simply playing unpredictably.
My own opinion from the limited time I've spent playing other games (compared to hundreds of hours playing hold 'em) is that Omaha 8 or better and stud 8 or better seem like the most beatable, especially at low and middle stakes (all I have played so far) where the talent level is dire. Any form of stud seems to have less variance in it than hold 'em, and the play is often really loose and really bad. Omaha 8 or better seems to be more prone to variance, but having a basic understanding of starting hands and what consitutes a good hand on the flop seems to be enough to come out ahead in most sessions. I actually just started playing this about two months ago, and I can only recall one session where I cashed out less than I bought in with (and that time, it was only -$3).
Thoughts?
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NLHE
variance has nothing to do with being beatable
and in hold'em it's the hardest to draw out on someone OUT OF ANY FORM OF POKER because if the board pairs it pairs both for you and your opponent. In 7 card stud, if your opponent pairs and you don't it makes you sad. You could have a pair of aces in the hole and he could have a pair of deuces. Now he's ahead without having to hit a set like he does in hold'em.
Hold'em is the most beatable and therefore the most popular form of poker
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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I tend to find more stud games with players that have absolutely no idea what they are doing more often than any other form of poker. Even at relatively large stakes there seem to be more bad players than good players. I think it is because people get good at hold-em and move up to mid/high stakes hold-em and then decide to try out stud and play at the same stakes that they do for hold-em without really knowing what they are doing at all. Because of this, I would say stud is the most beatable game, but I will say that two different times at 3/6 omaha tables, people have not known they could only use 2 of their hole cards, so it's possible to find some pretty good omaha games too 
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nehmer
I tend to find more stud games with players that have absolutely no idea what they are doing more often than any other form of poker. Even at relatively large stakes there seem to be more bad players than good players. I think it is because people get good at hold-em and move up to mid/high stakes hold-em and then decide to try out stud and play at the same stakes that they do for hold-em without really knowing what they are doing at all. Because of this, I would say stud is the most beatable game, but I will say that two different times at 3/6 omaha tables, people have not known they could only use 2 of their hole cards, so it's possible to find some pretty good omaha games too :D
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You forget the fact that NLHE players get a higher BB/100 even in tougher games.
For example, a buy-in to an MTT is worth 8x to a professional NLHE player and 2x to a professional 7stud player. So while a 7stud player can be making a thousand dollars on a thousand dollar buy-in, an NLHE player makes seven thousand. The nature of the game...
you could have pocket aces, and he can have a pair of kings and still be not-so behind. In hold'em he's 20% in 7stud he's what, 40%?
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lamaros
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 346
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At low stakes I'd have to go with Hi-Lo Stud as being the easiest to make money off.
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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Quote:
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I tend to find more stud games with players that have absolutely no idea what they are doing more often than any other form of poker. Even at relatively large stakes there seem to be more bad players than good players.
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Very true. Not only are the players generally poor, but you only need minimal epxerience/knowledge to show a profit.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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michael1123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 1,720
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With moderate knowledge being the key word, I think Razz is the most beatable. With one search on a quick starting hand guideline I completely destroyed a low / mid level razz game from my first day playing it on. I found tons of players that were absolutely clueless at the game, being insanely much worse at the game than I was after 1 hour of experience and the basic guideline to only play hands where your first 3 cards are 8 or lower.
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bencathers
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Manhattan & Boston
Posts: 480
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Omaha hi/low mid stakes. Most of the time its hold-em players who stray away from hold-em tables because they want something new... and think two pair is the nuts... I'm yet to have a losing session in omaha hi/low
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Dealer: bencathers has two pair, Aces and Deuces
Dealer: Tbags has two pair, Kings and Jacks
Dealer: Tbags finished the tournament in 256th place
Tbags [observer]: another scumbag gets there on this site lol
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Muxy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canadian LOLUH'S AND AMERICAN LOLUHS
Posts: 1,529
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I like stud live but dont care for it onlien for osme reason.
NLHE both ways on the board.
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tjp
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 50
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7 stud 8/b... by a mile. At the lower limits most people do not even know the rules never mind what constitutes a good starting hand.
Say bye bye to only making one big bet an hour; stud 8/b is nothing short of a goldmine.
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The_Bankroll
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 370
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by michael1123
With moderate knowledge being the key word, I think Razz is the most beatable. With one search on a quick starting hand guideline I completely destroyed a low / mid level razz game from my first day playing it on. I found tons of players that were absolutely clueless at the game, being insanely much worse at the game than I was after 1 hour of experience and the basic guideline to only play hands where your first 3 cards are 8 or lower.
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where you can you find good razz games online?
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The_Bankroll
Quote:
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Originally Posted by michael1123
With moderate knowledge being the key word, I think Razz is the most beatable. With one search on a quick starting hand guideline I completely destroyed a low / mid level razz game from my first day playing it on. I found tons of players that were absolutely clueless at the game, being insanely much worse at the game than I was after 1 hour of experience and the basic guideline to only play hands where your first 3 cards are 8 or lower.
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where you can you find good razz games online? |
Full tilt poker, probably some more other sites too.
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,204
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I tried the Full Tilt Razz game and wasn't impressed. Probably worth it if you're really good at the game or are patient enough to play it when the game is good.
Uncapped buy-in NLHE and Stud Hi/Lo no qualifier are the most notorious fish-killers.
The Paradice Pineapple game is a gold-mine if you have good LHE post-flop skills. The starting hands run closer in value, you'll catch more often so playing well post-flop is much more important and pounding is a good way to go stupid-broke.
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Vrax
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Poland
Posts: 632
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Pot-limit 5 card Draw. Lots of donkeyz calling with shorts, drawing to straights and baby flushes (and still scared of boats when they hit), basically: suckers for a big raises (like in Holdem  ). Unfortunately, fishes go bust very fast, almost everybody thinks that draw poker has more randomness than holdem but in fact this game is more stable, less variance and less bad beats (but if bad beat comes, it's often spectacular and it's easy to go on tilt when your pat A flush gets busted by miracle 3 card draw that filled up, cracking AA with QJ in holdem is NOTHING compared to draw poker bad beats).
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vrax
Pot-limit 5 card Draw. Lots of donkeyz calling with shorts, drawing to straights and baby flushes (and still scared of boats when they hit), basically: suckers for a big raises (like in Holdem ). Unfortunately, fishes go bust very fast, almost everybody thinks that draw poker has more randomness than holdem but in fact this game is more stable, less variance and less bad beats (but if bad beat comes, it's often spectacular and it's easy to go on tilt when your pat A flush gets busted by miracle 3 card draw that filled up, cracking AA with QJ in holdem is NOTHING compared to draw poker bad beats). |
Where can you play pot limit 5 card draw? I used to play limit 5 card draw on Paradise Poker and thought it was very interesting a fun.
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Vrax
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Poland
Posts: 632
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for dsaxton:
Sportingbet and Pokerroom offer good old 5c draw. Enjoy 
SB has pot limit .25/.50 and limit (various), pokerroom has better choice in stakes....
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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I sat in a $11 7CS sng earlier on party and won 1st. All i did was win a few monster pots and camp for good cards, then stole antes whenever the chance came (bringer has a 2 for a door card, a complete will steal it almost every time, even against bad fish)
I also check raised trips on 5th street one hand and it ended up 4-way capped betting, that gave me a massive chip lead.
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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I'm also reading up on 7CS because after bootcamp, i'll be in California for 7 months or so, and the casinos/cardrooms all play 7CS
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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Bad Beaten
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 197
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Hmmm...What about small-stakes PLOH.
It's loosy-goosey bullshit poker with embarrassingly bad play, and all you have to do to be a profitable player is read a bit and not be mentally reatarded.
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cartilago77
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Tijuana Donkey Show
Posts: 180
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Whatever form of poker besides NLHE ESPN airs a new episode of on a Tuesday night.
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cartilago77
Whatever form of poker besides NLHE ESPN airs a new episode of on a Tuesday night.
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thats the truth, i've had total fish in my local homegame suggest we play omaha and 7stud lol, and i KNOW they dont have a clue about it
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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