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stevedonel
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08-27-2004, 02:26 PM
Post subject: What to do in a ring game when getting crap cards?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Vegas
Posts: 617
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The past two nights in my home game, I have gone on very long runs (plural) of absolutely horrible cards. Wednesday, I had a run of over 15 hands without seeing a card over 7 and no pairs (15 hands from when I started counting, not sure how many before that). Last night I went about 25 hands without seeing an ace, face card, pair, or suited connector.
Most people say I should play some of this crap to bluff, to help create action when I do get a hand. I've always found blind stealing in ring games to be very unprofitable; besides, I am the only person that doesnt have trouble getting action in a hand. Case in point, Wed. night, I get QQ (to stop my run of 7 hi hands); I go all-in UTG for $12 in a .5/@1 game, 67s calls me. I love this kind of action, but the board was 67xxx. Last night, soon after my run of 10 hi hands, I get my JJ into a raising war with AKs. I'm allin preflop, a King flops. While these two examples may sound like I'm a "camper", they are the two that stick out in my head most, becasue they are the two that busted me for the nights. I do play hands like suited gappers, and Axs; these streeks, the past two nights, didnt even have any of those hands.
What do you do to prevent your stack from dwindling in a ring game, while getting rags? Should I start risking more on post-flop bluffing? In this game that normally takes $10-15, where I normally buy-in for $40-60.
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Is that guy still part of the forum??
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Krapp
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 313
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(1) Generally I dont try and play differently if I am getting bad cards. The exception is with SnG games. If you try to "play differently" b/c of bad cards, you are setting yourself for failure. Mainly, you will be playing outside your normal strategy and therefore wont be as confident with your betting decisions and will then make more bad decisions (unknowingly).
(2) Now with more sophiscated playing, you could play more the player vs the cards and it wont matter as much to what you have. If your opp mostly folds to (on the turn) 3x raises, raising 3x is a good play no matter what cards you have since most of the time they will fold (unless your slowplaying a monster of course). Although, the assumption is that you should always being playing your opp's betting habits and your cards. (One caviat: reading beginners betting habits might be more bad than good).
In SnG, if you are getting bad cards and your stack is dwindling, you absolutely must change your playing. Unlike ring games you dont have the luxury of re-loading if your low on chips.
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Makana
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 14
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Hiya. I haven't really posted here before and I don't exactly consider myself an expert but I have a couple of thoughts on this. I've played a lot of live games at casinos, home games and recently (not quite two weeks ago) I started playing a bunch on the internet. I'm up about $1K from that. I usually play on about 3-4 $25 NL tables on Party Poker. I mix in a few tournaments here and there, although I'm not as good at those I'd say I finish ITM about 65% (mostly Multi's)
Runs of 15-25 (hell, runs of 100) hands of crap cards is not unusual, it's rather normal actually. Most of the time that means folding for an hour or so in a home game. We've all had to do that on occassion. The worst thing you can do is let it start getting into your head. I've seen plenty of players go literally on tilt not from bad beats or getting busted out, but simply because, in their minds, they haven't gotten a fair share of the cards.
One thing I would do is to start working on your table's HPH (Hands Per Hour). Meaning, make sure everyone is always being as effecient as possible when it comes to starting the next hand (get the game moving). This can be as simple as making sure the dealer shuffles and deals before stacking the chips he won on the last pot. Or reminding people who don't have their blinds out before the action starts. Or having an extra deck that can be shuffled and ready while the current deck is being used for this hand. Basically the more hands you play, the more consistently good players will be rewarded and the more the fish will be punished.
The answer to the rest of your question is the same as the answer to every Poker question: It depends. How are the players at your table? Is there a lot of preflop raising? A lot of loose calling? How many players are there? If you can get in cheap in a ring game (especially if it's short handed), I would do it occassionally with even 1 gap unsuited cards in position just to see a few flops. Most of the players I've run into at home games are so bad post-flop that you can take down a few pots with pretty marginal hands, plus being in position limits your vulnerability. These players generally watch too much TV and don't understand that Hold 'Em isn't a pre-flop game.
BTW, your story with the Queens has also happened to all of us, but you've got to realize that the scenario you talk about is exactly the one that we all want to be in. Poker is not a game of absolutes, all you can do is make the right play and know that most of the time it'll work out in your favor but sometimes it will not.
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Les_Worm
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08-27-2004, 06:13 PM
Post subject: Re: What to do in a ring game when getting crap cards?
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#4 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 1,697
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by rdu steve
What do you do to prevent your stack from dwindling in a ring game, while getting rags?
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KEEP FOLDING. Also learn how to make the most out of the good hands that you get. You have to be patient even if its 50 bad hands in a row.
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The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
Phil Ivey Owns You
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stevedonel
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Vegas
Posts: 617
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Thanks Makana, you basically backed up what I think and do. I dont change my play due to the cards themselves. However, about half the ring games I play in, I wind up with these bad runs. We use two decks, and tend to keep the game moving; I'd say 30-40 hands/hr.
My particular home game is stacked with several very good post flop players; there is typically a 3-6x preflop raise in at least half the hands, with alot of loose callers. I will typically play those mediocre hands, depending on position and action left, to the raise and go with pot-odds and reads after the flop.
Oh, and beleive me I know, bad beats happen all the time. Thats poker. Its just that, in a ring game, I never bust out on a mediocre hand, and about half the time, I'm beat by a huge underdog. I've even busted on AA vs 27 after my >5x preflop raise. I'm not complaining about the beats, its just the runs of crap, where I hit absolutely nothing. I've played a limit ring game once, where I went 2 hours without getting the cards that would have won a pot, even the stuff I folded would have lost. I dont seem to have this problem in tourneys though, just rings.
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Is that guy still part of the forum??
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michael1123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 1,720
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If you can hold your own, or preferably outplay them post-flop, and they aren't aggressive preflop, in position you can limp in with a lot of suited connectors, one-gappers, and two-gappers as well.
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lonnie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
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What to do with crap cards: FOLD
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ArtHolmberg
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 37
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Fold and wait, like a cobra waiting to strike
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"Look, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker within your first 30 minutes at the poker table, then you ARE the sucker."
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Staple Gun
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Gamblers Anonymous
Posts: 812
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If the blinds are small and theres no pre flop raises jump in a couple hands with connecters or small gappers.
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stuck
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 586
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by rdu steve
I get my JJ into a raising war with AKs. I'm allin preflop
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That was a mistake. I know you were probably frustrated with not getting any hands all day, but you don't do that. The goal is to maximize profit, minimize losses. You minimize losses by folding crap hands, and do both by being careful with such hands as JJ. At least wait to see the flop. Only call his-reraise.
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If I had a hammer
I'd drop in the morning
I'd drop in the evening..
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LockLow34
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 266
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Just fold and be patient. Sometimes the cards don't come. When they DO come, do like you did and play and you'll get action. Remember you only need a couple big pots to make all the waiting worth-while.
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Chicago_Kid
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: People let me tell you about my best friends...
Posts: 1,132
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Generally, you seem pretty frustrated with this run. Make sure that your frustration is not affecting your decisions (see JJ vs AK comment above--I also think that is a bit too aggressive for typical ring situations).
If you really are beaten down, you might benefit from a break from the ring. Recently, I had a frustrating run in my ring game play during which I kept hitting big hands, but running up against bigger hands. After waiting all night for THE HAND (these beats were probably combined with a bad cards streak as well), these big showdowns were devastating. Sure, this was killing my profits, but it was killing my confidence more. This confidence hit probably cost me additional money money due to over-cautious play.
Maybe focus on tournaments for a while, until you get the "bad cards" thoughts out of your mind. Otherwise, if you can stay strong mentally and ride it out, then keep folding...
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"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
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