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Gatlin Dan
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02-23-2005, 05:47 AM
Post subject: What did I do wrong here?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wild Bill's Backyard
Posts: 504
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Should I have seen the flop here after the SB raises and the BB re-raises? The pot was huge and didn't like to call, but I thought with that much money in there pre-flop, it's was the right thing to do? Once in, how was the post-flop play?
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter
Preflop: dan is CO with 9 , 9 .
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, dan calls, 1 fold, SB raises, BB 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, dan calls, SB caps, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, dan calls.
Flop: (24 SB) 9 , 4, 8 (6 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, dan 3-bets, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.
Turn: (20 BB) 8 (5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, dan 3-bets, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.
River: (32 BB) 2 (4 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises, dan 3-bets, SB caps, MP1 calls, dan calls.
Final Pot: 44 BB
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Trikflow77
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: im so asian
Posts: 1,460
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In the CO, I raise it preflop. You are getting 6 to 1 immediate odds on the calls, so its an ok call if you feel that it wont be capped behind you. The problem is that MOST players that raise out of the small blind have a big hand and they will cap it. If it was me I would have raised preflop, called the extra bets and played no set no bet poker on the flop.
Flop: Well played
Turn: Well played
River: Well played
I am guessing that since this is .5/1 sb has AA or KK and MP has trips 8's or a lower boat.
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Gatlin Dan
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wild Bill's Backyard
Posts: 504
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If the table was tighter I would have raised this pre-flop, but with so many callers I knew I'd be playing no set no bet anyway and thought maybe I could get in and see a cheap flop and save a bet should the flop be unfavorable. This thinking was wrong?
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gutshot
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: lemonade was a popular drink and it still is
Posts: 608
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You're not raising to push people out of the pot. You're raising because you likely have the best hand right now.
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-jay
"i think the biggest leak in my game is using 2nd level thinking against players who can't think on the first level." -Renton
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Gatlin Dan
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wild Bill's Backyard
Posts: 504
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I should raise even though I know if I don't hit that set, I'm not likely to have the best hand once the flop comes out?
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gutshot
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: lemonade was a popular drink and it still is
Posts: 608
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When it was your turn to act preflop, you have no reason to think your 9s aren't the best hand. Get your money in and play it postflop. If its raggy unders you can continue to push. You have the luxury of position and can play accordingly postflop.
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-jay
"i think the biggest leak in my game is using 2nd level thinking against players who can't think on the first level." -Renton
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HeavyP
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 187
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looks g00t.
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gabe
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02-23-2005, 02:14 PM
Post subject: Re: What did I do wrong here?
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#8 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan
Should I have seen the flop here after the SB raises and the BB re-raises? The pot was huge and didn't like to call, but I thought with that much money in there pre-flop, it's was the right thing to do? Once in, how was the post-flop play?
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i've never folded 99 preflop, and this particular pot was huge anyway. i would call two bets back to me with any PP here.
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Chicago_Kid
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: People let me tell you about my best friends...
Posts: 1,132
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gutshot
You're not raising to push people out of the pot. You're raising because you likely have the best hand right now.
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I agree with raising PF, but I would raise with the full intent of pushing people out. Try to buy the button AND try to get the blinds to fold with Kx, Qx, Jx, etc to remove outs that might beat you. Granted this is .5/1 so that might not happen.
Maybe this is the newbie in me, but I have trouble understanding this logic ("raise w/ best hand right now" vs. "raise to push people out") when talking middle pair like 99. Wouldn't you NEED to push some people out or risk losing pot equity?
Sorry to nit-pick, but I see this written a lot, and I just want to understand how they are different.
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"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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i think i would have to dump 99 preflop against a 3bet. you are probably up against AA/KK and therefore behind before the flop. the flop was extremely lucky for you. i assume you won the hand?
ChezJ
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HeavyP
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 187
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I hope he won, he's holding the 2nd nuts 
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChezJ
i think i would have to dump 99 preflop against a 3bet. you are probably up against AA/KK and therefore behind before the flop. the flop was extremely lucky for you. i assume you won the hand?
ChezJ
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in such a big pot, you can't fold preflop! even if it was 22, i would make this call facing 2 bets back to me.
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Fnord
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02-23-2005, 11:47 PM
Post subject: Re: What did I do wrong here?
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#13 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
i've never folded 99 preflop
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You're playing too loose.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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I raise pre-flop:
o I want the button to fold as it might buy me a 4rth card if they "check to the raiser"
o There probably is some value here.
o It builds a pot.
o Mixed feelings on the blinds calling vs folding.
Also, you should be continuing on a small number of flops without a 9. Mostly OSDs (careful not to chase 2nd best to a broadway), paired and three of a kind boards.
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Gatlin Dan
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wild Bill's Backyard
Posts: 504
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Here are the results:
Results in white below:
MP1 has 9h 8h (full house, eights full of nines).
dan has 9s 9c (full house, nines full of eights).
SB has 6h 6d (two pair, eights and sixes).
Outcome: dan wins 44 BB.
What the hell is SB doing capping pre-flop with 66 anyway?
I understand the addage get your money in the pot with the best hand, but I still don't see the logic in raising pre-flop here. With so many callers, my only reaslistic chance to win the pot is to flop a set, and sometimes that isn't enough with such a multi-way pot. With the odds of flopping a set vs. the number of callers, it wouldn't be a raise for value. The only advantage I can see to raising pre-flop is to possibly get a free card on the turn, but as aggressive as this table was, that was unlikely.
Please help me understand what I'm missing here strategically.
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AllinLife
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 530
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan
Here are the results:
Results in white below:
MP1 has 9h 8h (full house, eights full of nines).
dan has 9s 9c (full house, nines full of eights).
SB has 6h 6d (two pair, eights and sixes).
Outcome: dan wins 44 BB.
What the hell is SB doing capping pre-flop with 66 anyway?
I understand the addage get your money in the pot with the best hand, but I still don't see the logic in raising pre-flop here. With so many callers, my only reaslistic chance to win the pot is to flop a set, and sometimes that isn't enough with such a multi-way pot. With the odds of flopping a set vs. the number of callers, it wouldn't be a raise for value. The only advantage I can see to raising pre-flop is to possibly get a free card on the turn, but as aggressive as this table was, that was unlikely.
Please help me understand what I'm missing here strategically.
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he's a moron
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"Is there any chance I'm going to lay this 9-high baby down? That's really not my style."
- Gus Hansen
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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he THOUGHT it was in phil hellmuth's top 10 list of hands
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