|
TylerK
|
09-07-2005, 03:40 AM
Post subject: This was a weird hand
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
|
|
Probably the weirdest hand I played all night, but I'm pretty sure I came up with the right action every time it came to me. What do you guys think?
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J , Q .
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.
Flop: (7 SB) K, T, 5 (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, CO folds, Button raises, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.
Turn: (11 BB) 3 (5 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, Button raises, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.
River: (20 BB) K (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, Hero folds, Button raises, SB calls, UTG calls.
Final Pot: 26 BB
|
|
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
I don't like the flop 3-bet. Otherwise looks fine. I don't think you can fold the turn in this pot.
|
|
|
|
TylerK
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
I don't like the flop 3-bet
|
Why not? I'm pretty sure I have a pretty huge equity edge. The flop checkraise is coming from my left (as opposed to the first flop bet which came from my right). It seemed like a decent opportunity to put in a value raise.
|
|
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TylerK
Why not? I'm pretty sure I have a pretty huge equity edge.
|
Many thinking players are greatly mistaken in spots like this. You have only 8 outs and 2 of them are tainted by the flush draw. Very different situation than having the nut flush draw + 1 over card (11 outs minus discount with 8 to the nuts.) Also, your 3-bet will make weaker hands less inclined to bet out when you hit, hence it will be harder to get in the extra bet.
|
|
|
|
outphase
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TylerK
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
I don't like the flop 3-bet
|
Why not? I'm pretty sure I have a pretty huge equity edge. The flop checkraise is coming from my left (as opposed to the first flop bet which came from my right). It seemed like a decent opportunity to put in a value raise. |
I might be going blind, but where was the flop check/raise?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
|
|
|
TylerK
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TylerK
Why not? I'm pretty sure I have a pretty huge equity edge.
|
Many thinking players are greatly mistaken in spots like this. You have only 8 outs and 2 of them are tainted by the flush draw. Very different situation than having the nut flush draw + 1 over card (11 outs minus discount with 8 to the nuts.) Also, your 3-bet will make weaker hands less inclined to bet out when you hit, hence it will be harder to get in the extra bet. |
Even if I only give myself 6 outs, I still have greater than the break-even 20% pot equity with 4 players to act after I 3-bet the flop. I understand that I'm only talking about fractions of a BB worth of positive EV, but am I really giving up an equal or greater amount in implied odds?
|
|
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
|
|
TylerK
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by outphase
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TylerK
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
I don't like the flop 3-bet
|
Why not? I'm pretty sure I have a pretty huge equity edge. The flop checkraise is coming from my left (as opposed to the first flop bet which came from my right). It seemed like a decent opportunity to put in a value raise. |
I might be going blind, but where was the flop check/raise? |
Button...checked....out of turn...before UTG bet the flop. You just didn't hear him...because you weren't there.
Yesssss...... 
|
|
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
|
|
ArcticKnight
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: golf course
Posts: 416
|
|
Now I now I need to quit......
Isn't this an easy fold pre-flop....??
|
|
Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ArcticKnight
Now I now I need to quit......
Isn't this an easy fold pre-flop....??
|
No, it's EV+ if you know it's going to be six-handed. Although SSH says fold for loose small stakes tables in middle position. As for the flop, the flush might not hit anyone so I'd give those two outs an out-value of 1. Partial outs :)
In SSH it says that the backdoor flush with one card (ace or king but the king is there so this is second nut flush) makes your hand STRONGER on a four-flush flop because of the redraw to a flush than a rainbow flop. If the river was a spade the payoff would have been pretty good from a lower flush and unlikely that someone has the ace of spades.
|
|
|
|
elipsesjeff
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
|
|
If I were 4 tabling or more I would probably just fold this preflop as well, however I think postflop you played it just fine. Way to bet your draws!
|
Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Wow, even with the nut flush draw you're doing ok. Surprising result.
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
2,255,518 games 11.359 secs 198,566 games/sec
Board: Ks Ts 5c
Dead:
equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)
Hand 1: 20.1525 % [ 00.20 00.01 ] { QcJc }
Hand 2: 29.9720 % [ 00.29 00.01 ] { KK, KQs-K2s, KQo-K2o }
Hand 3: 06.7840 % [ 00.06 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-K2s, QJs-Q2s, JTs-J2s, T9s-T2s, 98s-92s, 87s-82s, 76s-72s, 65s-62s, 54s-52s, 43s-42s, 32s, AKo-A2o, KQo-K2o, QJo-QTo, JTo, T9o, 98o, 87o, 76o, 65o, 54o }
Hand 4: 06.8032 % [ 00.06 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-K2s, QJs-Q2s, JTs-J2s, T9s-T2s, 98s-92s, 87s-82s, 76s-72s, 65s-62s, 54s-52s, 43s-42s, 32s, AKo-A2o, KQo-K2o, QJo-QTo, JTo, T9o, 98o, 87o, 76o, 65o, 54o }
Hand 5: 36.2881 % [ 00.36 00.00 ] { As2s }
|
|
|
|
Rondavu
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
|
|
With all due respect for you limit experts (been dabbling lately), it seems to me like he doesn't hurt his implied odds by 3-betting the flop since there is a lot of confidence/loose action present regardless. On top of that small flop bets/raises get much less respect in general since a wide range of hands would act aggressively on this board.
Educate me.
|
|
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
|
|
TylerK
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rondavu
With all due respect for you limit experts (been dabbling lately), it seems to me like he doesn't hurt his implied odds by 3-betting the flop since there is a lot of confidence/loose action present regardless. On top of that small flop bets/raises get much less respect in general since a wide range of hands would act aggressively on this board.
Educate me.
|
Personally, I totally agree with you.
|
|
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rondavu
With all due respect for you limit experts (been dabbling lately), it seems to me like he doesn't hurt his implied odds by 3-betting the flop since there is a lot of confidence/loose action present regardless. On top of that small flop bets/raises get much less respect in general since a wide range of hands would act aggressively on this board.
Educate me.
|
I like to keep my opponents passive to threaten to raise a lot of the times when I'm in the hand and I have a marginal edge.
|
|
|
|
StinkyBeaver
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 275
|
|
So which is the better +EV move on the flop here..?
call or 3-bet. I've always been 3-betting here
|
|
|
|
Rondavu
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by StinkyBeaver
So which is the better +EV move on the flop here..?
call or 3-bet. I've always been 3-betting here
|
Read the thread bro. It was determined to be correct to 3-bet in this case.
|
|
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
