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We Call This A Dayne Sandwich

  
 
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socal1111
Old 06-30-2008, 07:48 AM     Post subject: We Call This A Dayne Sandwich #1 (permalink)  
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socal1111
Limit squeeze play! Love the creamy filling!

BTN: ABC aggression, never out of line.
BB: Terrible. His favorite play... leads, gets raised, calls. Donks nxt. street.

Folded to me, I raise J10s in HJ, BTN 3-bets, BB caps. I want to fold, but call, BTN calls.

FLOP
10,9,3 rnbw.

BB leads, I know I'm beat by BTN, but call. BTN raises, of course. BB calls, I (suck), but call.

TURN
Q (giving me OESD) SHITE, I'M BEAT, BUT S(T)UCK!

BB donks (as always- damn, he sucks more). I want to raise to max. pressure BTN, but he's got overpair, and going nowhere... so,

I call, BTN raises, BB calls, I have to call.

RIVER
10 [10,9,3,Q] 10 rnbw.

BB donks again- surprise. I raise, BTN 3-bets!! How do you spell Q's-full??? BB calls...

I call my wife at home, tell her to take my entire BR, and spend it all on whatever she wants!
"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing!" -Doyle
 
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Fnord
Old 06-30-2008, 08:35 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Fold pre-flop when it's 2 cold back to you.
I would just go ahead and raise the turn. You might be ahead of the SB, BN might even fold an over-pair and would be very hard pressed to 3-bet without a set or something. Defining BNs hand on the turn would make your river play a lot easier because as-played you can't give up for one bet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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DrivingDog
Old 06-30-2008, 10:49 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Fold to the cap preflop unless both opponents are loose.

What range do you put BB on here? I mean is he capping reasonable hands like JJ+, AQs+, AK; is he capable of being silly with 88, ATo, KQ0; or does he like getting frisky with stuff like 55, QJs? Makes a big difference to how you play the hand. Also, is he just autodonking every street with his entire preflop capping range or does he actually have to have at least TP or better?

What about Btn? You just call the flop because you 'know' he has you beat but that requires him to only 3bet preflop with TT+ in which case you should be running for the hills preflop.

Anyways, now that we're in a capped pot with a marginal hand, I just call the turn. Trying to knock out button isn't going to work often enough imo.

For Btn:
AK (16 hands) probably folds to a turn raise, it's a 3-5 outter depending on BB's hand
AA (6 hands) might fold, OTOH the pot's pretty big and it might not.
KK, AQ , AJs, JJ (22 hands) will never fold.
99, TT, QQ (9 hands) will hammer you.

So out of 53 possible hands, you're only possibly folding out 6 better AA hands and 16 AK hands that might have outs to beat you on the river(assuming you're even ahead of BB on the turn, which is a big 'if'). Also, all of the better hands that are willing to put two bets in on the turn (e.g., KK, AQ) will never fold the river for one more.

This, plus the fact that you will often lose to BB anyways makes raising the turn pretty spewy imo. But it's an interesting idea that would probably work well in some contexts.

As played you have to call the river obv.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
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Fnord
Old 06-30-2008, 10:53 AM #4 (permalink)  
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The pot is so bloated that a flop raise isn't going to do much for you.

As for a turn raise, it's a big pot and we should be looking to spend an extra bet to win it since we have too much equity at that point to fold.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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DrivingDog
Old 06-30-2008, 11:05 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
The pot is so bloated that a flop raise isn't going to do much for you.

As for a turn raise, it's a big pot and we should be looking to spend an extra bet to win it since we have too much equity at that point to fold.
Yeah I edited the flop raise out, bad idea.

It's a big pot but you're not going to win it often enough on the turn to justify a raise. A better hand is almost never folding. Maybe AA folds but maybe not.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
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Fnord
Old 06-30-2008, 11:16 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivingDog
A better hand is almost never folding.
Doesn't have to happen often and given the flow of the hand we're probably going to have to put in another bet anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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DrivingDog
Old 06-30-2008, 12:40 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Meh, I dont think Btn folds AA either. Too easy to put us on AQ, KQ, QJ. Pretty standard calldown imo. Maybe people play tighter in live games tho, idk.

Also if we are drawing vs. BB we prefer to have Btn in on the river to pay us off if we hit.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
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socal1111
Old 06-30-2008, 06:30 PM #8 (permalink)  
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socal1111
Totally agree w/ folding pre (and I knew it then, too). BB is soooo bad. I've seen him cap QJo- his range is sooo wide.

BTN pre doesn't have to have 10's+ to 3-bet, but he'd never raise w/out TP+ on flop.

I almost pulled trigger on turn... I like that play, but ONLY if I can fold one of them, and have ability to take free SD. Neither one's going anywhere. I have to improve 100% time. If I raise turn, I can't fire UI on river, yet I can't C/C either.
"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing!" -Doyle
 
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