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theBlueTick
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02-10-2009, 12:44 PM
Post subject: Valuing starting hands
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 21
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Ok, So I'm new to Omaha (generally play holdem). I tend to play SNG as I can play lot of hands in for not much money.
I'm very hit and miss about winning hands an I am definitly struggling with valuing hands.
So my question is how do you value the starting hands. Do you give more value to a combination of starting cards or are pocket pairs still best.
Let me explain with an example, is 8,9,9,t better than K,K,8,2 as it has slight more outs i.e. I can hit 5,6,7 or j,q,k or another 9 (more if they are suited connectors). Or is the k,k still out in front because it beats an ten, or lower pocket pair?
Or do you raise up preflop and see what hits. I always seem to get a lot of callers doing this (probably caused by playing low buyin games) one of which always seems to outflop me.
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Sir Pawnalot
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 668
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Hand values- both in holdem and omaha, are dependant upon a multitude of factors.
Here are some
- Table dynamics
- Player tendencies
- Your own image
- Stacks
- Statistical hand strength
- etc
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A foolish man learns nothing from his mistakes.
A smart man learns only from his own mistakes.
A wise man learns from his own mistakes, and those of the smart man and the fool.
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theBlueTick
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 21
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That true to an extent, but when it comes down to pure stats you can work out the % that A,A will hold up against 9,9 given the odds of hitting another 9.
My thinking is that this gap closes due to the nature of omaha. Is this a minor leveling or should I be changing my play accordingly
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_________________________
Gravity is a cruel mistress
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,601
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you need to think about 4 card hands (which should be 6 hands or more), not two card hands. You should not think of Omaha as hold em with two more cards.
899T will flop good more often than KK82 although KK82 will be a lot easier to play when you hit it. You'll probably prefer 89TJ to either.
Until you get more experience I would play very tightly during small blind levels and more or less have the nuts or be drawing to them.
As the blinds go up you can gamble pre flop with pairs or rundowns or a hand like 99TJ. AA hands are almost always ahead pre flop, but vs a good rundown esp with live suits it is pretty close to a flip. Even AA vs KK is usually around 2/1. Hands generally are much closer pre flop than in Hold Em.
Even more than in HE SNGs, your big wins in Omaha SNGs when the blinds go up will be everyone folding pre flop.
http://twodimes.net/poker/
You can run some simulations between hands here.
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theBlueTick
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 21
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Thanks for the input.
I'll adjust my play accordingly. It's interesting reading some of the other posts with specific examples, as there are a lot where the concensous is to junk what look like good pocket pairs
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_________________________
Gravity is a cruel mistress
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madiaz
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2
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ithink that raise is very dificoult in omaha there are so many posibilities,
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TFTR
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6
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theBlueTick your question is my question too. Many times I lose with hands like KK J T and 89TJ. I think that in omaha you have to see the flop and after decide what will you do?
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Rage2100
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 719
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TFTR
I think that in omaha you have to see the flop and after decide what will you do?
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Yes.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,601
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ya - unless you can get half your stack in pre or so you should think of every hand as a drawing hand. Of course the other good players also think this way...
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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1. Nut potential
2. position
mix and match these two criteria
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The first starting hand in order to stay in the game Omaha hi poker has to draw an ace, and the second one has two drawing flushes and good chances for a drawing straight that adds value to the aces. Of course if you play one-on-one and you’ve got two “rotten” aces in your hand, your chances are good. But one cannot say a good poker about a game in which one raises on a card requiring a three-of-a-kind to win the pot.
In a limit Omaha it is impossible to get two aces through and it is hard to do the same in a pot-limit game. Only in a non-limit game two aces form a good hand without support but Omaha games are not limited very rare.
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pool123
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11
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best way for you learn starting hands would to have a person draw up a chart telling you what hands to start with now have with you as guide line there so many hands people think are great which really arent that what i wouls suggest i still have charts i keep with me in case i forgot somthing or hit a slump i go back to basics pull my charts out
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