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| swiggidy |
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Villain had fired multiple PSB barrels before, hence the flop c/c, turn check. I am thinking I should raise turn. Thought about leading river for $4. Couldn't think of what kinds of hands he actually had in his range. Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players - View hand 508868 The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter CO: $52.45 BTN: $53.00 SB: $72.90 BB: $20.35 Hero (UTG): $39.30 MP: $25.00 Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with A  6  6 A  Hero calls $0.25, 2 folds, BTN raises to $1.10, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.85 Flop: ($2.55) 5  6 6 (2 players)Hero checks, BTN bets $2.45, Hero calls $2.45 Turn: ($7.45) J (2 players)Hero checks, BTN bets $7.10, Hero calls $7.10 River: ($21.65) A (2 players)
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| drmcboy |
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yeah I might c/c turn sometimes but when he pots it feels like he thinks you're drawing. and pretty much every river will look bad whatever he has. As played I bet about half pot I think, surely he doesn't bluff the river and if he has a flush he might check back but will have to call I would think. way to cripple the deck I would raise pre. |
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| bigspenda73 |
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I don't get why you're limping PF, I'm guessing looking at stacks the table was a bit crazy and you didn't want to possibly stick in 160BBs in PF? The river is a cool spot to discuss poker theory, once you think about betting vs. checking more I'd like to here your thoughts to why one is clearly superior to the other. |
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| jyms |
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I don't think you can check this river. The problem with raises earlier in the hand is it scares a lot of people on paired boards since sets are so popular with noobs trying to catch full houses. Letting him catch up some is kind of important and since you never stated what he barrels with you need him to either have a great draw to stay in the hand if you raise. If he has a great draw on this board i would be impressed. Bet and let him either think you missed your wrap. UI really don't think he fired 3 witha K high FD and is planning to stack off here. |
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| bigspenda73 |
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the only time we ever have a fd/wrap and get to this river is when it's accompanied by a 6. Our range here is typically strong but relatively weak, mainly trips, underfulls, and flushes that contain a six. It's not hard to figure out a range for villain in this sense as our hand kills a lot of combos he could play this way. Everyone is focusing too much on our hand and not on what our opponent could possibly have. Let's build a range for him and then decide on our river options which are the following bet small bet 1/2pot bet large c/raise |
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| salsa4ever |
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| i like to check the river | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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| XTR1000 |
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| I think checking is good, since he can still valuebet JJ** and maybe 55** and can easily turn many hands into a bluff credibly repping AA. If we bet he´s only calling the hands he´d be betting himself and hardly bluff raising at all. | ||
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Quote:
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| bigspenda73 |
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| he's definitely betting 55xx, esp. now that the flush got there | ||
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| swiggidy |
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Quote:
/ on turn. Some wrap, although that's less likely since I have the 66. Could also have a weird somewhat crappy hand since my read is he will fire a ton.I think a single J is unlikely unless accompanied by FD. I can group all the bets into one, because I don't think he calls any bet. Even a weak bet says "I have a 6, or at least a crappy flush" and I don't think he can call or will bluff raise. However, the pairs, spade flush, and maybe a complete air hand would/could bet. Any thought that maybe he's slightly spastic since he's potting the turn? Seems like 3/4 pot is effective, and works with a wider range. |
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| bigspenda73 |
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| the river is either a check or if he truly is some spazzbot then something tiny | ||
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| bigspenda73 |
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I guess I should expand, if you look at his range for betting both the flop and turn it's going to be (in order of frequency) A. 55/JJ -- this is pretty obvious B. protection hands (like swiggs said, naked overpairs and even something like AKQJ) that honestly they are incorrectly betting as I'll get to in Range D C. outright bluffs -- not a bad idea here, esp. after I garnered from XTR's thread that some of you actually want to c/c naked overpairs on similar boards on the flop D. semi-bluffs (I'd say wraps are more likely to barrel than flush draws, or at least I'd be more apt to barrel a wrap than let's say nfd as I'd rather not have my opponent fold a worse fd). Either way most people are checking back their draws here, it's just pretty likely we have a 6 or better when we c/c flop OOP. So when we get to the river and we look at his flop/turn range it is A boats that are looking to get value from flushes/6x B protection hands that now have zero showdown value C outright bluffs that just binked a good card to 3 barrel D semi-bluffs that got there and semi-bluffs that are now air (wraps) So if we bet -we get called by 55 and raised by JJ (but that's not a certainty) -get folds from his protection turned to crap range -take away his ability to bluff with range C -get paid (possibly) by his flushes and get folds from his wraps that missed If we check -We get to stack JJ/55 as no one is bet/folding these hands, they are certainly betting them as well and we could theoretically be value-shoving worse hands now that the flush got there (although we'd never have a flush unless we had some naked 6KsXsYx flush and we wouldn't c/r it but people don't think like this) -He can turn his protection range into a bluff (which is a better option then asking him to call 70BBs with these hands were we to bet) -He can certainly 3barrel his air -He can bet his missed wraps and potentially bet his flushes, but he's rarely going to bet/call them. I'd say if we knew he had a flush we'd be better off betting as people will just sigh-call here and some will pussy out and not bet strong flushes. However, my feeling is he isn't semi-bluffing the turn, which then makes checking the river even better. |
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| drmcboy |
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Just doesn't seem like he has 55/JJ much so I think we ignore those, plus he may jam them all whatever we do. We c/c twice and the most obvious draw got there. I don't really see how this is a good barreling card. I can't believe he thinks a 6 plays this way, esp at this level. If we have a 6 it's either A6xx or a wrap that we surely would have CR him with before now. when you're drawing at a non nut flush on a paired board (esp vs a limp calller!) and the As comes it has to look pretty awesome. |
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| bigspenda73 |
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| When your opponent has a ton of air in his range (as we can deduce for from board texture, blockers, flop/turn action) betting the river is just a bad play in general. Like you said, we're stacking JJ/55 either way and it's going to get hard to get paid off by the rest of his range, so checking is clearly superior to betting. | ||
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| drmcboy |
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| It's only bad if he'll bluff said air, we just disagree on how often he'll bluff. I think it's mostly never so I'd rather get value just in case he has a flush. | ||
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| baudib |
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| I think there's a better case to be made for checking any other spade, since he can't have AA I don't think he's betting often on the river. | ||
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Playing big pots at small stakes.
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| davis13 |
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| I kinda hate turn c/c and your hand is pretty face up as a 6 by now. I really disagree with saying that 55 will be stacked on the river, especially when the A hits unless he can't fold to save himself. Given how its played, doing anything but checking river is horrible. You rarely have a draw here or a naked overpair and your naked overpairs but AAxx are c/fing regardless, so your range is pretty much some strongish draws, overpairs and a 6/quads. Give him the last bit of rope with his air and hope to god he has JJxx and doesn't fold to a river c/r as that and spades are the only value hands he can really have. | ||
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| drmcboy |
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| Does anyone c/c twice with a 6? I really don't get why you guys think our line looks like a 6 here, that's about the last hand I would put swigg on. | ||
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