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Ummm.... wow. Semibluff'n

  
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 03-09-2006, 06:11 PM     Post subject: Ummm.... wow. Semibluff'n #1 (permalink)  
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Didn't think this one would work.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with J A
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Button raises, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: Q 8 K (10SB, 5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Button bets, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: 3 (7.5BB, 5 players)
Hero bets, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, Button folds.

River: 2 (9.5BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: 9.5BB


+EV?
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elipsesjeff
Old 03-09-2006, 06:15 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 Well, I like to 3 bet this preflop and try to get it HU and then the hand plays differently. The turn bet is fine IMO, although getting it checked behind wouldn't be so bad either for you. You look like an ass if you get called on the river but its an interesting line. It may be a good time for a turn checkraise semibluff given you have an ass load of outs.


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thenonsequitur
Old 03-09-2006, 07:14 PM     Post subject: Re: Ummm.... wow. Semibluff'n #3 (permalink)  
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Against an opponent that knows how to fold I like to check-raise this turn, and if called, lead any river. Against an opponent that doesn't know how to fold I check/call the turn and fold the river UI.

I think a pair is more likely to fold after a check-raise semibluff than after a donk-bet semibluff. And I think the extra likelihood is more than enough to make up the difference in cost when it fails. Especially since some people will interpret a donk on this board as a semibluff and raise you with just a pair.

Also, in this particular case, since there is a third player UTG+1 that comes after the aggressor and you, I like a check-raise semibluff even more, because you may be able to get him to fold a pair that he is willing to check/call 1 bet with but not check/call 2 with.
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pokerfanatic
Old 03-09-2006, 07:56 PM     Post subject: Re: Ummm.... wow. Semibluff'n #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenonsequitur
I think a pair is more likely to fold after a check-raise semibluff than after a donk-bet semibluff.
ha-ha, well that is not really true at all, 6 max players play stupidly a lot, even the decent players play dumb at times... so really I don't think that a real bad player fold a pair

A good one given he is paying attention to the action and knows Demi's style of play he would surly call down... because I think 95% of the time Demi leads out the FD... so I can't put him on that, and if he did have it why wouldn't he c/r the turn or wait to the river to donk or c/r? In short his line seems fishy to me from a good player, so I would probably make a thin call down with a pair assuming board doesn't go 4 flushed... it goes 4 flushed it's an easy fold assuming I don't have the A-Q the Q is pushing it but I have seen some real dumb shit… I think that you were only thinking on a basic 1st level, and not taking into consideration the line by your opponents, believe me 1st level of thinking works until you get yourself up against another decent player then you must resort to thinking one step ahead or go back to pure math… I have had hands against taggs that the line of thinking for both of us was “Well I have shit but I know he has shit too so I bump it” and next thing you know you are going 3 bets trying to get each other to muck it…

My line with this is to 3 bet PF thus changing all the lines all together... then you would be donking out the flop, and probably donking out the turn, and if you get real spunky fire all 3 barrels when you brick
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euphoricism
Old 03-09-2006, 08:05 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I think trying any 'lines' against this many opponents on this board is foolish. I c/c the flop and turn and c/f the river. You dont have to win every pot.

If I must bluff, I c/r the turn.
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StinkyBeaver
Old 03-09-2006, 10:00 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
I think trying any 'lines' against this many opponents on this board is foolish. I c/c the flop and turn and c/f the river. You dont have to win every pot.

If I must bluff, I c/r the turn.
Me 2. but opposite in HU or 3 way Pot I'll be semibluffing all over to get them to fold.

I think I check/raise turn and bet river as a bluff if HU or 3 way.
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