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bigspenda73
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09-15-2006, 07:04 AM
Post subject: Um...weird idea
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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OK, so I was reading some newbies NL post earlier and someone said he was losing the most out of the BB (no shit sherlock) and winning the most on the cutoff. The player suggesting sitting out the BB and posting back in on the button or cutoff.
In all honesty, this does not sound bad. Im kinda buzzed, someone tell me why this doesn't work, I know it doesn't, but I cannot make my mind understand it right now.
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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well if you miss the BB you can not post the SB right there after, thus you would have to post the dead SB in the pot AND the BB... so you would be posting1.5sbs just to skip the blinds in the CO... sure you gain positional advantage however, i think that you can not over come, solid blind play via normally posting...
plus concepts in limit and NL are different... in NL it isn't that bad an idea based upon the positional value and the relative implied odds... limit you have position but not as huge of odds...
so in NL it might not be a mistake but i feel if we crunched the numbers for a limit principle that it would come up as -EV...
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Here's why it must be a mistake ...
You must post the blinds once for every orbit no matter what you do. By sitting out then posting in the CO, you just get to play 3 less hands per orbit than if you just post normally at the same blind cost. Additionally, you have to post the extra small blind at the same time (unless you change tables every orbit). Which is also a loss because you don't get to play a hand from the SB with that money being a portion of your bet. You also never get to play the Button, and if you do best out of the CO, that is an abberation, and you should do better on the button.
If someone is so horrible from early position that they totally lose their ass out of the blinds, they will still do much better if they check/fold every hand but AA from the blinds, and only continue with 3 of a kind or better when checking the BB, than playing as suggested. By trying this misguided strategy, one would just be giving up free chances to play a monster out of the blinds. This is not just unequivocally bad for limit, but also for NL.
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Kessler
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 117
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Agree with Xanadu. If you're playing full ring, you get 10 hands per orbit. If you sit out the BB, and repost at the cutoff, you only get 7. One doesn't need to check a PT database to know that AA and KK show up in the blinds enough to prove the point. Not to mention how much FUN it is to check/raise out of the blinds! 
-Kes
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If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.
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Kessler
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 117
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Just realized this is in the Shorthanded section. In that case, this move is probably even more -EV because the blinds come around even faster at SH.
-Kes
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If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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this is quite possibly the worst idea ever.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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arkitekton
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 269
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Quote:
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this is quite possibly the worst idea ever.
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(ahem) Invading Iraq (cough)
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Arki, shaddup. 
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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even in NL i see this as a -EV play now that i have had more time to actually think about it and crunch a few numbers here and there... sure you might have a much bettor position in NL with a lot bettor implied odds, however you're still missing 2 hands per orbit and in a way you kind of miss 3 given you miss the button position as well... at even 2 hands, you figure to see what about 60-80 hands/hr at FR which is about a 1hand/ min... so you take out 2 hands lets say you see basically 8 hands in 10min instead you now see 48hands/hour a difference of 12 hands/hour... over a session of say 6 hours... that's 72 hands missed... how can that be a correct play when you miss almost 100 hands in a session because of it?
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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To just clarify a bit on fanatic's post, it's not just missed hands, but missed FREE hands. Those missed hands you wouldn't have to pay any more in blinds to play.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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OK, I'm still trying to figure this out. I skip the blinds, post 1.5BB on the button, then I play UTG/MP/CO for free? Is that correct or am I working back asswards?
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
OK, I'm still trying to figure this out. I skip the blinds, post 1.5BB on the button, then I play UTG/MP/CO for free? Is that correct or am I working back asswards?
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If you don't pay the blinds the button skips you
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Damn, failed to realize that, thanks
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