www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

two pair looking to max..

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

Chopper

07-17-2008, 03:41 AM Post subject: two pair looking to max..

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

i seem to have trouble with the situations where "only better calls" still. i seem to catch most of them, but occasionally i bet a river and smack myself. just looking for some confirmation because these donkeys still call with much worse than i sometimes fathom, so it may be better to just bet anyway.

i hold AT-ish in HU pot w/ standard villain (loose, but average aggression). flop of A X Q. i lead. get called. turn Q. i lead again, and wonder why?

i suppose TT calls. i suppose weaker A's call. but, why am i repping the Q now? is it better check and induce a bluff and call down? standard villains do call lightly, but they also fold to scare cards. do i get called by a wide enough range to think i can continue to bet? the last thing i want is what seems to happen...they fold.

another situation... same type villains.
i hold JJ and 3bet cold pf. called by two players (one the original raiser). flop of 8 9 T. i lead and get one caller. turn blanks. i lead. get called. river J. i snap-lead and about kick myself.

i assume two pair hands call, but why open myself to a raise by a Q or 7?

i dont remember these exactly. sorry. (damned cake HHs are a bitch to find and post) but, i saw those two similar situations and thought i might be better checking and calling. however, i have no idea if villain will bet or call as both bets rep a strong hand.

which has more EV? c/c? or b/c when the bet gets lots of folds?

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

asdpikas

07-17-2008, 07:20 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 1,056

I'd say at low stakes, mostly better to bet, without reads of villain being aggro/bluffy.

1st hand u will get called by worst aces many times, and you dont mind folding out gutshots

2nd hand is tougher, i'd c/c but u may get called by worse many times.

Quote:

which has more EV? c/c? or b/c when the bet gets lots of folds?

With more cards to come:
This depends on the size of the pot and the strength of your hand, but usually, unless u hold a pretty big hand, u welcome the fold and winning that pot right away. If u check, and villain checks behind, you gain nothing, except you just gave him a free card and a chance to catch up and beat you by hitting a 4outer.
Basically, if villain has few outs, you bet, and he folds (not getting enough odds) you both played correctly and you won the pot. If you check, you allow him to have a free chance at beating you (you play incorrectly, he plays correctly) by giving him infinite odds. This may cost u the pot.

If you are on the river:
as discussed in other posts, bet against the passives, and c/c against the aggros

oskar

07-17-2008, 12:05 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz

Posts: 2,452

First hand I would still bet. What did you think he could have when he called the flop... there are still a lot of weaker aces out there. If you get raised you probably got a good idea where you're at. if you c/c you'll be clueless until the cards are turned over, and you might have to make a bad call on the river.

The JJ hand I would value bet. Can you really give him 7x in a 3-bet pot? Would he call down Qx? I agree it's tricky because there aren't too many draws left... you can't give him the case Jack...
I think worse hands call here. Better hands obviously raise. If you check you're telling him that you didn't like that river and he might bet anyway just to push you off the hand, realizing his pair of T might not be good after all.
I think you'd have to put him on a much too tight range to be able to c/c, c/f that river... 77, 78, QK??, QT???

oskar

07-17-2008, 12:20 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz

Posts: 2,452

On a second though - hopefully you layed him sufficiently wrong odds to call with a straight draw on a draw heavy board like that, so you're still not loosing any value with a b/f here even if he has a straight 90% of the time.

asdpikas

07-17-2008, 12:38 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 1,056

Quote:

Originally Posted by oskar

If you check you're telling him that you didn't like that river and he might bet anyway just to push you off the hand, realizing his pair of T might not be good after all.

Against an aggro player, u want this, u want to induce the bluff and not risk being raised.
A passive player will check behind too many holdings that u beat and that would probably call your bet, and if a passive raises in that spot, u can safely fold.

Chopper

07-17-2008, 02:15 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

hey hey, oskar's here!! welcome in, man.

i guess it's better to keep firing down here because the standard player is rather passive, imo. again, its cake so i have no HUD or anything to help me. i actually like that because i have little way of even tracking my success other than to look at the cashier every now and again to make sure things are headed positive. i dont care about winrates over there. i have no "e-dick" to swing around. i only want things moving upward. i dont care how fast. it kind of takes the pressure off.

but anyway, i think its easier to note the aggros and if not noted assume they are passive...at this level. at 1/2, i am finding it a bit different, obv. so, its possible these hands should be played two different ways on the two levels.

i just feel like

every time i bet the scare card when i have something only slightly worse. i feel it folds off hands that may bluff, and its unlikely that card hurt my chances much.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Jibalob

07-17-2008, 11:51 PM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Out of my roll

Posts: 512

I think you are giving your opponents calls too much credit. Pocket pairs basically never fold at the micros - neither do aces or any kind of draw regardless of the board.

The only bet when better call / worse fold thing is much more important on the river. Just value bet these loose passive players to death, and respect their raises on the later streets.

Edit: Has your stox book arrived yet? I just know from the kind of questions you've been asking lately that you're gonna love it!

PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]

Chopper

07-18-2008, 12:00 AM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

nope. mom got back in town monday, and i still havent talked to her yet...lol.

i only need to be told to valuebet the lpp's to death about another 100 times. i do see the Ahi/pp call down crap WAY too much. at least that has my bluffing almost completely stopped.

i am now starting to finally get that unless they are blatantly aggressive, they should be treated as call stations...as a "default read."

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Jibalob

07-18-2008, 12:12 AM

#9 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Out of my roll

Posts: 512

Just a tdbit of additional info:

By the end of my latest stint at 1/2 I was actually VALUE betting AK unimproved on the river vs alot of players.

PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]

Chopper

07-18-2008, 12:54 AM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

getting lots of folds, i guess. but, down lower, they call that shit all day. still...good to know

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Latest Poker News
KoRnholio	05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:44 PM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

All Other (Limit) Poker

two pair looking to max..

Play for FREE and practice your game at...