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Turn and River limit play
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Ragnar4
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05-23-2009, 06:06 PM
Post subject: Turn and River limit play
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Found a joooooosey 2-6 spread limit game here in town, that just demands being dominated.
My problem, is the same problem I've always had in limit, my turn and river play is just weak. Flop play makes a ton of sense to me, but I always tend to go too passive on the turn and the river.
Aside from SSHE, do you guys have any recommendations for turn/river play reading/exercises? 5 to the flop for a raise every hand just demands I straighten things out over there, and get rich doing it.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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in a spread limit game, bet the max if its worth betting.
5 to a flop, for a raise, is just begging for big draws/combos/2pr+ hands. punish your TP+gutter hands. backdoor draws give off nice implieds and can withstand a few peels with as little as overcards.
you need to play everything that has potential to take out one and two pair hands. if you cant thin the field on the flop, which i suspect you cant, you need to bet draws for value only and maybe take off the flop and wait for the turn to protect vulnerable TP hands. focus on position. but, get in there from the blinds with speculative stuff. any chance you get at a cheap flop, consider taking it with some pretty crazy stuff. you will also become a payoff wizard on rivers because of the bloated pots. but, i wouldnt pay off with Ahi when 5 players took a flop to a raise and it was HU on a river.
expect variance to go sky high and hold on. carry a deep bankroll. if the variance gets the best of you, there isnt much wrong, imo, with playing a bit more passive in multiway pots. but, because of this, if i ever get a steal situation or HU pot post flop, i am dropping the freaking hammer on you with anything. you will likely give me credit, since you dont know how to play in HU spots........because this casino never puts you in that spot.
thats where my edge would lie......almost every HU spot i could find. hopefully, b vs b.
my .02
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
in a spread limit game, bet the max if its worth betting.
5 to a flop, for a raise, is just begging for big draws/combos/2pr+ hands. punish your TP+gutter hands. backdoor draws give off nice implieds and can withstand a few peels with as little as overcards.
you need to play everything that has potential to take out one and two pair hands. if you cant thin the field on the flop, which i suspect you cant, you need to bet draws for value only and maybe take off the flop and wait for the turn to protect vulnerable TP hands. focus on position. but, get in there from the blinds with speculative stuff. any chance you get at a cheap flop, consider taking it with some pretty crazy stuff. you will also become a payoff wizard on rivers because of the bloated pots. but, i wouldnt pay off with Ahi when 5 players took a flop to a raise and it was HU on a river.
expect variance to go sky high and hold on. carry a deep bankroll. if the variance gets the best of you, there isnt much wrong, imo, with playing a bit more passive in multiway pots. but, because of this, if i ever get a steal situation or HU pot post flop, i am dropping the freaking hammer on you with anything. you will likely give me credit, since you dont know how to play in HU spots........because this casino never puts you in that spot.
thats where my edge would lie......almost every HU spot i could find. hopefully, b vs b.
my .02
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This makes a lot of sense. I wonder if anyone's set down to really write a definitive account of spread limit strategy. It may be a kind of silly brand of poker but it's actually a very common game, both in jurisdictions where they have legislation limiting maximum bets as well as in places like Laughlin, NV where there aren't a lot of poker tables. I'd be interested in seeing how the math works out, whether there are ways to adjust bet sizing for table image purposes or to get more or fewer callers, etc.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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i didnt think this up. this is from tons of reading here at FTR.
i think it was Fnord that told me to maxx your bets in spread limit games. hell, live, you know the fishies are going to call. would you rather them call a few bucks or the maxx.....if you knew they would call with middle pair? its a no-brainer.
you just have to be prepared for the action. cuz its gonna come at you. and, the suckouts can really tempt the tiltmonkey inside us all.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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LawDude
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
i didnt think this up. this is from tons of reading here at FTR.
i think it was Fnord that told me to maxx your bets in spread limit games. hell, live, you know the fishies are going to call. would you rather them call a few bucks or the maxx.....if you knew they would call with middle pair? its a no-brainer.
you just have to be prepared for the action. cuz its gonna come at you. and, the suckouts can really tempt the tiltmonkey inside us all.
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I understand the point about max betting and EV. But what about using bet sizing to manipulate opponents? Are there situations in spread limit where one bet size is more likely to be called than another? Do you ever have fold equity with a maximum bet? Etc.
Given there's so much spread limit around, it seems like someone ought to have thought this all out.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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did you search for the topic? maybe go into the live forum and ask fnord?
i dont know much other than what i said earlier. however, i do think there are reasons to vary your bets. but, i dont think you should as often as you think. again, the fish will call. they are in a casino and waited 5 minutes for a hand they want to play, right? lol.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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