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A turn check behind.

  
 
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dsaxton
Old 03-18-2006, 11:12 PM     Post subject: A turn check behind. #1 (permalink)  
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Hadn't been at the table long, but small blind seems like a fish. No idea how big blind plays. Good or no?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, T.
2 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (9 SB) A, 7, 3 (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 3 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (7.50 BB) Q (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB folds.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB
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StinkyBeaver
Old 03-18-2006, 11:22 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Don't raise this guy with an A with no real kicker...

You have position so let him bet all the way with all his pocket pairs and loose the least when it's AA, AK and AQ.

Why give a free card on the turn.?
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dsaxton
Old 03-18-2006, 11:39 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinkyBeaver
Don't raise this guy with an A with no real kicker...

You have position so let him bet all the way with all his pocket pairs and loose the least when it's AA, AK and AQ.

Why give a free card on the turn.?
If I shouldn't give a free card on the turn, why should I just call the flop? If calling is good, then raising is probably better, since I maximize my chances of getting the small blind to fold a 5-outter. I may get 3-bet by the big blind, but I don't even really mind, since this tells me my hand isn't good and I can comfortably fold the turn. I figured the board pair had him drawing to at best 3 outs, and the big blind two if I'm ahead. So a free card won't hurt my chances of winning much.
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euphoricism
Old 03-18-2006, 11:51 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Nehmer
Old 03-19-2006, 02:11 AM #5 (permalink)  
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I like the flop raise here as a chance to get SB out of the hand or force him to make a bigger mistake. I bet the turn though and if called, I'll check behind the river instead. The pot is big enough that I don't mind if I make BB fold a high pair.
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ArcticKnight
Old 03-19-2006, 03:20 AM #6 (permalink)  
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I don't mind the flop raise if you use the info you got. Both ops just called, and neither led the turn. To me this is a green-light to bet.

I agree that the BB is ahead of you pre-flop, but he looks like he's in high-mid pair call down mode(as opposed to AK or AQ) after you raise. Take that info and make him pay on the turn.

Because you checked the turn, you now don't know "why" he is bettting the river. He could think his pair is good after your check, he could have KQs or something. ( the Q ain't exactly a brick.....)
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ihategnomes
Old 03-19-2006, 03:25 AM #7 (permalink)  
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I dont like the turn check.

Quote:
You have position so let him bet all the way with all his pocket pairs and loose the least when it's AA, AK and AQ.
This sums up what I am thinking. You lose the least against those hands, but you win the most against everything else he might 3bet and donk down that he might fold to a raise, smaller pairs, broadway cards not containing an A and smaller A's
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StinkyBeaver
Old 03-19-2006, 11:36 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsaxton

If I shouldn't give a free card on the turn, why should I just call the flop? If calling is good, then raising is probably better, since I maximize my chances of getting the small blind to fold a 5-outter. I may get 3-bet by the big blind, but I don't even really mind, since this tells me my hand isn't good and I can comfortably fold the turn. I figured the board pair had him drawing to at best 3 outs, and the big blind two if I'm ahead. So a free card won't hurt my chances of winning much.
If you think the above statement is true and both opponents is drawing to either 3 or 2 outs, just rmember that the freecard are giving both opponents endless odds as this cost them nothing.

Assume both oppnents have 5 outs all together then you are giving up on more than 10% of 7,5BB, so yes this is a mistake IMO.

Keep in mind that you need to put your opponents in spots where they can make mistakes, by giving them the freecard they are going to make less mistakes in this hand thus you need to bet and hope that someone can't drop a PP or that BB doesn't believe you and call you down with his KK or something similar.
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