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Trying stuff at the low limits

  
 
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euphoricism
Old 05-07-2006, 10:00 PM     Post subject: Trying stuff at the low limits #1 (permalink)  
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My typical line here. Raising the river, doesnt really matter what comes up.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T, K.
1 fold, MP calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, MP calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) J, 5, K (2 players)
MP bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 8 (2 players)
MP bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.75 BB) A (2 players)
MP bets, Hero raises, MP calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Results in white below:
MP has 5c Kc (two pair, kings and fives).
Hero has Tc Kh (one pair, kings).
Outcome: MP wins 9.75 BB.

The guy who opens the pot is a 10/2. I'm scared of him. Other guy is a 50/8. Wasn't quite so worried about him until well... , so my cap was "meh, Ive got nut FD, and I wanna know what the rock does... also, I dont really want to cold call here, as thats pretty damned obvious..." comments?


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, K.
UTG calls, MP raises, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG folds, MP calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 2, A, Q (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, MP calls, SB calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 5 (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP calls.

River: (14 BB) 9 (3 players)
SB bets, Hero folds, MP calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB

Results in white below:
SB has Td 8d (flush, ace high).
MP has Qh As (two pair, aces and queens).
Outcome: SB wins 16 BB.





Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)


Preflop, raise or fold? I didnt really like doing either one...

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, 9.
UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 5, Q, K (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, CO checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, MP calls, CO folds.

Turn: (4 BB) T (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets, MP calls.

River: (6 BB) K (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets, MP calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

Results in white below:
MP has 9d Tc (two pair, kings and tens).
Hero has Ks 9c (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 8 BB.



Not even sure whether to continue on this flop. I figured if i was going to continue, i should raise for a free card. That worked well... Villain is a 50/0

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T, K.
1 fold, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 3, 4, 9 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 3 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.25 BB

Results in white below:
No showdown. BB wins 5.25 BB.





Donking out my gutshot because of implied odds. Turned an open ender, bricked both. I guess this is fairly standard.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, 8.
UTG calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) T, 7, 4 (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 6 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 4 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Results in white below:
SB has 2s Th (two pair, tens and fours).
Hero has Jd 8s (one pair, fours).
CO has 7c 9c (two pair, sevens and fours).
Button has Jh 8c (one pair, fours).
Outcome: SB wins 8.50 BB.



Thought this was interesting. I decided to raise here, because well, no one was folding, and bumping the pot up with a pretty nice suited connector, and maybe gaining some folding equity (aginst a bunch of calling stations, its unlikely), but it is a nice thought. I'm playing 2/4 for a reason, watcha think?
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T, J.
2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 9, 5, A (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5 BB) T (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (7 BB) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets, Button folds.

Final Pot: 8 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Tc Jc (one pair, tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 8 BB.



This is the same guy who donked every street last time, so im kinda interested in his donking range. Not particularly interesting in this case, I guess. I might donk there too with that hand.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T, A.
UTG calls, Hero raises, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 3, 2, 4 (4 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero calls, Button folds.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 2 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 4 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

Results in white below:
BB has 3c As (two pair, fours and threes).
Hero has Ts Ad (two pair, fours and twos).
Outcome: BB wins 9.25 BB.

Another chronic donker that I just wanted to know what his donking meant, so I payed him off with Q high. (not the same guy as before). This guys donk is a bit more interesting, and I'll be raising him far more liberally now. Kind of a surprising play for a 50/8. He must be _somewhat_ thinking that I dont have much.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J, Q.
UTG calls, Hero raises, 4 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 7, 2, 5 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 7 (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.75 BB) 4 (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Results in white below:
UTG has 8h Ks (one pair, sevens).
Hero has Jh Qs (one pair, sevens).
Outcome: UTG wins 7.75 BB.


He, of course, immediately left the table. Glad I paid so much to see what his donking meant.
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Miffed22001
Old 05-08-2006, 02:34 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 my question is what would you donk into a pfr raiser with and what would you donk into a limped pot with?

I think i do it a lot more than some of the more established lhe players in here.
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euphoricism
Old 05-08-2006, 03:48 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Into a PFR'r, I'll often donk top pair -- particularly in a multi-way pot. If the pot is HU and i flop top pair, I'll generally check call check call donkbet.

Into a limped pot, its board specific. If the board is AJ4 and I hold like J9 or whatever, I can be fairly sure that I am beat. Still, I donk that out sometimes, particularly if I have a redraw. Like, second pair + gutshot + backdoor flush, yeah, that gets donked.

I dunno. Now that I start to think of it, its pretty arbitrary.

Top pair multi way almost always gets donked
Top pair heads up almost always gets check called check called donkbet'd
Top pair into a limped pot DEFINITELY gets donked.
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StinkyBeaver
Old 05-09-2006, 02:30 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Donking into a PFR is done not only upon wether I hold toppair or better (donking, hoping to get raised so I can 3 bet), but my relative position vs. PFR is equally important. Depending wether I think I can defend my hand best I donk.

So sometimes you donk hoping that PFR will raise and thus get someone else to fold and your equity in the hand to rise. Other times you check and hope to go for a checkraise if you believe thats what will defend your hand the best.

All I'm saying is that theres a several things that goes through my mind before donking.

In limped pots I'll bluff quity often simply because the potodds for donking in a 3 way limped pot with a dry board is good.
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elipsesjeff
Old 05-09-2006, 02:32 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinkyBeaver
Donking into a PFR is done not only upon wether I hold toppair or better (donking, hoping to get raised so I can 3 bet), but my relative position vs. PFR is equally important. Depending wether I think I can defend my hand best I donk.

So sometimes you donk hoping that PFR will raise and thus get someone else to fold and your equity in the hand to rise. Other times you check and hope to go for a checkraise if you believe thats what will defend your hand the best.

All I'm saying is that theres a several things that goes through my mind before donking.

In limped pots I'll bluff quity often simply because the potodds for donking in a 3 way limped pot with a dry board is good.
Excellent statement. I donk many boards so I hope the PFRer will auto-raise and force everyone else to fold or call 2.

Also, if a PFRer raises preflop, auto raises the flop multiway in position and bets again on the turn when also multiway, chances are he actually has a good hand. If that wasn't obvious already...


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Miffed22001
Old 05-09-2006, 01:56 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
StinkyBeaver wrote:
Donking into a PFR is done not only upon wether I hold toppair or better (donking, hoping to get raised so I can 3 bet), but my relative position vs. PFR is equally important. Depending wether I think I can defend my hand best I donk.

So sometimes you donk hoping that PFR will raise and thus get someone else to fold and your equity in the hand to rise. Other times you check and hope to go for a checkraise if you believe thats what will defend your hand the best.

All I'm saying is that theres a several things that goes through my mind before donking.

In limped pots I'll bluff quity often simply because the potodds for donking in a 3 way limped pot with a dry board is good.
Excellent statement. I donk many boards so I hope the PFRer will auto-raise and force everyone else to fold or call 2.

Also, if a PFRer raises preflop, auto raises the flop multiway in position and bets again on the turn when also multiway, chances are he actually has a good hand. If that wasn't obvious already...
My only problem with this is that donking to 3 bet is a waste of later street bets imo unless opp hit the flop but just not as hard as we do. In this era of aggressive poker where people just hit the bet button until they face aggression, calling and forcing opps to make later street mistakes for extra bets is how i think donking can be used effectivly. My 2cents.
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koolmoe
Old 05-09-2006, 03:07 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
My only problem with this is that donking to 3 bet is a waste of later street bets imo unless opp hit the flop but just not as hard as we do. In this era of aggressive poker where people just hit the bet button until they face aggression, calling and forcing opps to make later street mistakes for extra bets is how i think donking can be used effectivly. My 2cents.
Certainly opponent dependent. Consider that you will often get raised for a free card on the flop (even by weak draws), but that doesn't happen on the turn. In those cases you would much prefer to bet/3bet the flop and lead the turn than check/call the flop and leading the turn.
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midas06
Old 05-09-2006, 09:10 PM #8 (permalink)  
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He means check/call flop, check/raise turn
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Miffed22001
Old 05-11-2006, 04:03 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midas06
He means check/call flop, check/raise turn
yes
not enough aggressive players can resist betting the turn with even a weak draw and supoposed fold equity when another player check calls the flop and checks the turn too looking to c/r.
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pokerfanatic
Old 05-11-2006, 04:24 PM #10 (permalink)  
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this is the first time i have seen this for some reason here are my thoughts on the hands.... even if you are "trying stuff"...

Hand 1:
i like the PFR i do it as well the time with that hand i that position... umm i don't mind you play here but i think i might have raised earlier in the hand because your hand is voluntarily, any ace sucks ass for your hand, a diamond might suck ass, another face card might suck ass if it doesn't pair the board or if the J hits that might be trouble... just so many hands that could be out there and you have not the slightest idea of what he has with this line...

Hand 2:
PF we you got KK you bettor raise! on the flop when you get 3 bet a cap is just a fucking spew of chips even if you are trying something that's just a bad fucking play... though you do have the NUT FD i don't like this cap... you'll get bet into a lot of times on the turn by a hand trying to figure out if you were on a draw or a made hand... when he donks and you only call he can feel confident that you are drawing IMO...

Hand 3:
EWWW, K9s sure i'll call there but K9o umm raise or fold, though you got a nice board and river... i just think this play is bad... EV is too marginal... it might even be -EV don't know would have to run it though Poker Stove

Hand 4:
well i don't mind the raise but the raise on the flop is a spew IMO... you have NO draw you have 2 MARGINAL over cards that is a spade hits of them they are probably not good so you got 4 outs? do you raise there with a GSD? NO! you should be folding, you really don't have the odds to see a card5:1 for a 10.5:1 shoot HU nope you don't have implied odds either...

Hand 5:
lol i don't like the flop bet now if it checked though and i hit my pair on the turn then i bet and see what happens if i get more then 1 caller i know i need to improve again to win...

Hand 6:
don't mind the PFR, i do it sometimes... i have 3 bet it before against a maniac LOL... the flop is good for you easy bet... turn you improve easy bet... hmm river you brick but you got a pair and it doesn't look like this guy has much if anything so i'd bet again, seems standard to me...

Hand 7:
looks pretty damn standard... but you can't do that EVERY time some players wont bet down marginal hands as this case...

Hand 8:
LOL why are you calling with Q high HERE FISHY FISHY FISHY!!! If it was K high that's fucking marginal but Q high lol good luck...
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