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edudlive

10-04-2005, 12:01 AM Post subject: trying to learn limit..

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: 100NL 6max

Posts: 623

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9

, 7

.
Hero calls, MP calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 9

, 7

, 6

(4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 5

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB folds.

Final Pot: 4 BB

Results in white below:
No showdown. Hero wins 4 BB.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6

, K

.
UTG calls, MP calls, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) 3

, 2

, 6

(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP folds, Hero raises, UTG calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 2

(2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: (5.75 BB) Q

(2 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has 6c Kd (two pair, sixes and twos).
Outcome: Hero wins 6.75 BB.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6

, 5

.
UTG calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 4

, 7

, 3

(4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, CO folds, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 5

(2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

River: (9 BB) 9

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 10 BB

Results in white below:
UTG doesn't show.
Outcome: UTG wins 10 BB.

(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
(16:02:31) Fleece: that u got real life friends
(16:02:48) Fleece: enjoy ur real life friends
(16:03:08) Fleece: ur e-friends dont wanna knwo about u anymore

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Fnord

10-04-2005, 12:04 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Hand 1: Fold pre-flop w/o a table read of way way too loose.
Hand 2: I usually just bet the flop into loose/passives. Check/raise in more aggro games where I can expect the button to bet 90% of the time when checked to.
Hand 3: Got a read? I usually check/call or bet/fold that river.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

edudlive

10-04-2005, 12:08 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: 100NL 6max

Posts: 623

I was going to call on hand 3, just to see what he had, but I timed out from thinking

(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
(16:02:31) Fleece: that u got real life friends
(16:02:48) Fleece: enjoy ur real life friends
(16:03:08) Fleece: ur e-friends dont wanna knwo about u anymore

Fnord

10-04-2005, 12:13 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

I was going to call on hand 3, just to see what he had, but I timed out from thinking

Clarkmeister's Theorm:

When it's heads-up to the river out of position and the 4rth flush card hits, it's almost always correct to bet.

There are 3 exceptions I've found:
o Dealing with an irrational opponent (maniac, pure calling station, etc.)
o If you have a weak card of that suit against a habbitual bluffer (or super-aggro value better who will bet a pair here.)
o Dealing with a player that knows you know Clarkmeister's Theorm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

KoRnholio

10-04-2005, 01:37 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 2,165

KoRnholio will become famous soon enough

That Clarkmester is a smart dude. I've been in those scary 4-flush on the board situations a number of times lately. And in all cases the aggressor won the pot.

One was at 2/4 limit where I reraised bluffed the river (I had AKo, board Kxxxx) after bet/calling a check-reraise on the turn (when the 3rd suit hit). Pretended I had As and scooped a monster heads up pot.

The other was in .5/1 NL where I bet all streets in position with my AQ on an AxxxK board. River was a 4th heart and the guy bet 1/2 of the (large) pot into me, and I couldn't find a call in that spot. He said he had AQ without the flush, which could very well have been true.

10-04-2005, 02:20 AM

#6 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

I was going to call on hand 3, just to see what he had, but I timed out from thinking

Where do I get the book? :D

drtofu66

10-04-2005, 05:23 PM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 595

For Hand 3-- what do you think of check/calling both the turn and river? Too weak? The flop raise/call of the Hero's 3-bet seems to be standard SSH play for a flush draw so when the unfortunate turn hits, isn't it time to slow down there?

edudlive

10-04-2005, 06:20 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: 100NL 6max

Posts: 623

PokerStars Game #2725319597: Hold'em Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2005/10/04 - 14:18:16 (ET)
Table 'Achernar' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: RiverQueen35 ($16 in chips)
Seat 2: Brandonathb ($41.50 in chips)
Seat 3: Dugh Hillon ($13 in chips)
Seat 4: Arilexi ($21 in chips)
Seat 5: edudlive ($14.75 in chips)
Seat 6: KELLZ84 ($59.50 in chips)
KELLZ84: posts small blind $0.25
RiverQueen35: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Qs Ad]
Brandonathb: calls $0.50
Dugh Hillon: folds
Arilexi: folds
edudlive: raises $0.50 to $1
KELLZ84: folds
RiverQueen35: folds
Brandonathb: calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [Qd 2s As]
Brandonathb: checks
edudlive: checks
*** TURN *** [Qd 2s As] [3s]
Brandonathb: bets $1
edudlive: raises $1 to $2
Brandonathb: calls $1
*** RIVER *** [Qd 2s As 3s] [3h]
Brandonathb: bets $1
edudlive: raises $1 to $2
Brandonathb: raises $1 to $3
edudlive: calls $1
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Brandonathb: shows [Ah 5h] (two pair, Aces and Threes)
edudlive: shows [Qs Ad] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
edudlive collected $12.25 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $12.75 | Rake $0.50
Board [Qd 2s As 3s 3h]
Seat 1: RiverQueen35 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Brandonathb showed [Ah 5h] and lost with two pair, Aces and Threes
Seat 3: Dugh Hillon folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Arilexi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: edudlive (button) showed [Qs Ad] and won ($12.25) with two pair, Aces and Queens
Seat 6: KELLZ84 (small blind) folded before Flop

Should I have capped the river? (hand convertor down)

(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
(16:02:31) Fleece: that u got real life friends
(16:02:48) Fleece: enjoy ur real life friends
(16:03:08) Fleece: ur e-friends dont wanna knwo about u anymore

thenonsequitur

10-04-2005, 07:19 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Location: Location

Posts: 637

Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

Should I have capped the river? (hand convertor down)

Just calling the river is okay here. The board is paired, and the board contains a 3-straight-flush.

Bet the flop. You have no good reason to slowplay here (especially since the board is both flush coordinated and somewhat straight coordinated). Make your opponent pay for draws. If you're lucky he will have a weaker made hand and will play back at you.

Fnord

10-04-2005, 07:38 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Playing 2 pair like that is a great way to miss bets and kill your action. Anyone with a brain puts you on a flush draw or more likely a flopped monster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

edudlive

10-05-2005, 04:19 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: 100NL 6max

Posts: 623

PokerStars Game #2732057960: Hold'em Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2005/10/05 - 12:16:16 (ET)
Table 'Armenia' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: LordMichael ($13.75 in chips)
Seat 2: edudlive ($27 in chips)
Seat 3: KONZZA ($49 in chips)
Seat 4: Flush or Die ($62.25 in chips)
Seat 5: Mr. 64 ($12.25 in chips)
Seat 6: ozrael ($11.75 in chips)
edudlive: posts small blind $0.25
KONZZA: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [2d 2c]
Flush or Die: folds
Mr. 64: calls $0.50
ozrael: folds
LordMichael: calls $0.50
edudlive: calls $0.25
KONZZA: raises $0.50 to $1
Mr. 64: calls $0.50
LordMichael: calls $0.50
edudlive: calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [8c 2s 2h]
edudlive: checks
KONZZA: checks
Mr. 64: checks
LordMichael: checks
*** TURN *** [8c 2s 2h] [3c]
edudlive: checks
KONZZA: checks
Mr. 64: bets $1
LordMichael: folds
edudlive: raises $1 to $2
KONZZA: folds
Mr. 64: calls $1
*** RIVER *** [8c 2s 2h 3c] [Js]
edudlive: bets $1
Mr. 64: calls $1
*** SHOW DOWN ***
edudlive: shows [2d 2c] (four of a kind, Deuces)
Mr. 64: mucks hand
edudlive collected $9.75 from pot
LordMichael said, "nh"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $10 | Rake $0.25
Board [8c 2s 2h 3c Js]
Seat 1: LordMichael (button) folded on the Turn
Seat 2: edudlive (small blind) showed [2d 2c] and won ($9.75) with four of a kind, Deuces
Seat 3: KONZZA (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 4: Flush or Die folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Mr. 64 mucked [Tc Td]
Seat 6: ozrael folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I really thought someone would take a stab at it on the flop (a PFR and 3 callers, come on!), but I got lucky someone used the turn to bet so I could check raise. If only the flop would have been T22

(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
(16:02:31) Fleece: that u got real life friends
(16:02:48) Fleece: enjoy ur real life friends
(16:03:08) Fleece: ur e-friends dont wanna knwo about u anymore

thenonsequitur

10-05-2005, 05:27 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Location: Location: Location

Posts: 637

This is a more understable spot to slowplay. More opponents, a non-vulnerable hand, and most importantly, the player sitting to your immediate left raised pre-flop from the big blind. Chances are good that he has a pocket pair or AK/AQ and will bet this flop, letting you trap everyone for a second bet and also building the pot to a point where others with weaker hands are more likely to call on later streets with weaker holdings simply because the pot is so big. That being said, a flop bet would also be a good line here, especially if your opponents are passive.

When the check-raise on the flop failed, I would bet out the turn, for two reasons: 1. Having it checked through on the turn too really sucks, and it's just not worth risking it; 2. If it's checked to someone close to your right who bets, and you raise, the pot is now small enough that the double-turn-bet is likely to drive people out that checked up to that point. A turn check-raise might also scare an otherwise-caller to fold on the river. Just bet out and hope for callers. If you're lucky, someone to your right will raise you.

10-05-2005, 07:20 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Posts: n/a

The more the opponents, the less correct it is to slowplay. There are so many more people who could call a bet, so why let them get away for free? If you bet the flop and got two or three callers or maybe even a raise you would make more money on the turn because the pot odds for them will be better.

If I were to slowplay in this situation I would just smooth-call a raise in front of me and see if the same guy leads in front of me.

thenonsequitur

10-05-2005, 07:40 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Posts: 637

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

If you bet the flop and got two or three callers or maybe even a raise you would make more money on the turn because the pot odds for them will be better.

Pot odds on the turn is exactly why I think slowplaying here is not a bad play. If you bet this flop, I think there is a good chance you will just get a few callers. Whereas if you check, I think there is a good chance BB will bet and when it gets back to you you can raise and pump the pot. I think it depends on how likely you think it is that BB is to bet (it also depends on whether you think the BB will raise if you bet, and whether you think people after the BB will call 2 on the flop).

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

If I were to slowplay in this situation I would just smooth-call a raise in front of me and see if the same guy leads in front of me.

If you choose to bet the flop (and as I stated above, I think this is a good line too), and the BB raises you (and you don't 3-bet--whether you should depends on how many people/who is left in the pot), then yes, I agree that your turn line is probably the best to trap BB for extra big bets. But be careful if BB is the type that likes to raise the flop for free turn cards.

edudlive

10-06-2005, 05:29 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: 100NL 6max

Posts: 623

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with T

, T

.
UTG calls, MP calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 6

, 5

, 7

(4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG folds, MP calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) T

(3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets, BB calls, MP calls.

River: (10.25 BB) 2

(3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets, BB folds, MP calls.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

Results in white below:
MP has Ah Ad (one pair, aces).
Hero has Tc Ts (three of a kind, tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 12.25 BB.

Good example of why you cap/3bet preflop with aces I suppose? Did I have any reason to think that opps were on anything other than TP (or 2nd pair) with probably a straight draw or just two over cards?

(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
(16:02:31) Fleece: that u got real life friends
(16:02:48) Fleece: enjoy ur real life friends
(16:03:08) Fleece: ur e-friends dont wanna knwo about u anymore

nomore

10-07-2005, 03:51 PM

#16 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 45

There was no show of aggression at all so you had to believe your 10s were good on the flop.
Even without the 10 on turn you should definately bet all the way to the river.

Fnord

10-07-2005, 05:19 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Ni Han. You'll see lots of stupid shit on the river.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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