Originally Posted by bigspenda73

I would just buy small stakes limit holdem by Sklansky/Miller and read it a few times before you go play. I cannot see a limit donkament playing too tough.

Originally Posted by NWNewell

The only reason I didn't suggest that is because I imagine he has a decent grasp of the game and he needs to transition very fast to Limit for WSOP in June, and he was trying to transition to 10/20 Limit online. Also, he probably won't be playing at tables with a bunch of loose/passive players where SSHE Preflop strategy works well. However, I am in no position to comment on the level of play at a WSOP Limit (or other) Tourny.

But bigsplenda is right, larsmars. SSHE is a good read. But I didn't think the preflop play is well suited for the games you are trying to beat. However, if you have time, it is worth the read.

Originally Posted by larsmars

Ok, so I'll move down a level or two and save myself some money. I'll see if I can find SSHE somewhere and read it at work tomorrow. NWN, when you say re-raise TT+, what hands do you typically re-re-raise? What about AK, AQ? Thanks for the advice, guys, please keep it coming.

Originally Posted by Chopper

1) when the table has several limpers/cold-callers in front of you, be less inclined to raise w/ off-suited power cards...they arent going anywhere for "one more," and you arent going to "thin the field" here. however, definitely raise and start to bloat the pot w/ AXs, sc's things that benefit from lots of players and big pots.

Originally Posted by larsmars

I'll be playing in event 53, Limit Hold'em shootout (as well as the main event). Good thing you asked, because I didn't notice it was a shootout and I don't know wtf a shootout is. Anybody?

Originally Posted by larsmars

I'll be playing in event 53, Limit Hold'em shootout (as well as the main event). Good thing you asked, because I didn't notice it was a shootout and I don't know wtf a shootout is. Anybody?

And if you don't raise, you'll be able to give drawing hands worse odds post-flop if you hit, since the pot will be smaller? During my first session I raised KQ from the BB after a ton of limpers. Everybody called of course. I kinda figured it wasn't the best move. When you say raise AXs and SCs, do you mean in position (or also from the blinds)? Good stuff, as this is more or less the opposite of your basic NL strategy.

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

Remember, since the game is going to lose one player and then be shorthanded until the winner moves on, Stealing blinds will be extremely important. I'm not certain on the range at 5 players. But I know this. Rutheless, cold, silly aggression is the way to win. Get a good hand and play it like aces as long as you catch one pair.

Originally Posted by larsmars

Yeah, that makes sense. Shootout sounds kinda stressful. Guess I gotta start playing some HU to get some practice.

Originally Posted by NWNewell

I think playing a bunch of limit sit 'n goes would help too

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

You raise JJ b/c an overcard doens't come 1/2 the time and if you are in a pot with 3 others you're making money off each one of their PF calls.

Trust me, once you post flop play gets better and better you'll actually be opening more and more hands PF.

Also, don't open 33 UTG/MP in a 6max game, that's a horrid hand for the type of play it takes to win those games, never limp AKs. I haven't read much of this thread as I really am getting tired of PF discussions.

Call me back in here when a good postflop discussion gets going, k thx.

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

In Limit. Post flop is the key to the game. What he's forgotten is that it takes competent play preflop in order to give yourself the freedom to play postflop.

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

That's why you don't raise big offsuit holdings out of the BB with 4 other limpers. You've hamstrung yourself until the Turn at the earliest, when those kind of hands don't want to make it out of the flop.

That's why you don't always raise AXs from late or the button. IF you did every time, they would catch wise. But it won't bite you in the butt until you raise with AA, and 6 people cold call you, and one clown re-raises. You'll stick in all the way down, But I guarantee you. You'll lose a lot more money than you'll make putting in 3 bets 6 ways with AA all the way to the river even if all 6 other players are holding 2 random cards.

Originally Posted by NWNewell

all depends on how much respect you are getting.

If you're raises already are getting action and no respect, don't worry about raising Ax, etc.

If you are getting too much respect and no action, then do it hear and there until you get a little.

Find that balance you are talking about.

But if we're debating about raising 3-4 limpers with Ax. There is no need. If you have that many people limping preflop, you'll get your action with AA more often than not.

Originally Posted by Chopper

i gotta admit...coming from NL, i have been on tables that are sooo loose/passive that you shouldnt play JJ for anything other than set value.

JJ aint that great when a Q+ hits and you have 4+ guys interested in the pot. so, why raise it, if you KNOW ahead of time that these guys are playing a lot of KX and AX hands?

easier, in NL, to see the flop cheap and get aggro post flop when you spike your J and they cant get off their A-rag.

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Also, don't open 33 UTG/MP in a 6max game, that's a horrid hand for the type of play it takes to win those games, never limp AKs. I haven't read much of this thread as I really am getting tired of PF discussions.

Call me back in here when a good postflop discussion gets going, k thx.

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

In Limit. Post flop is the key to the game. What he's forgotten is that it takes competent play preflop in order to give yourself the freedom to play postflop.

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

Although, in a shootout. I'm gonna be honest, the "if it's worth playing, it's worth a raise" argument comes into its own. But only if you're the first guy into the pot.

To whit, in a shootout, I have a feeling most hands are going to go like this:

1) EP raises, everyone folds

MP raises, BB calls. If BB doesn't check/fold on the flop, one player will bet out every street until the river. Where the river will complete some nasty draw. The aggressive player will lead out, and get raised by the, until now, passive player. The aggressive player will have to make a decision, bluff, or he caught his draw. Then decide whether or not to call.

LP will be much like MP. Except

Everyonce in a while, someone from LP will raise and Button and he will get into a war. The message is "don't steal my blinds".

I don't imagine it will be too much more creative than that. Until HU play.

Originally Posted by larsmars

What's MP in a 6 max game? HJ/CO? I understand why it might not be the best idea if the game is loose, but surely it can't be that bad in a tight game? If so, why? By the way, I fully realize why this might not be the most interesting thread to some.

Originally Posted by larsmars

You're talking about NL here, right? Make a bigger raise...