|
Nehmer
|
01-09-2007, 05:28 PM
Post subject: TPGK vs a tricky Tag...
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
|
|
I check behind on the turn thinking that he's probably either looking to check-raise me again or he had nothing and has an easy fold, but a check might get me river action....thoughts?
PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is Button with Q , A .
6 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls.
Flop: (4.33 SB) 9 , A, 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.
Turn: (4.16 BB) 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks??
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
elipsesjeff
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
|
|
I like it, if he bet the turn I'd probably raise or at least 3bet the flop normally. I think he's trying to rep an ace or is on a complete bluff.
I dunno, I go back and forth between betting the turn, so you don't have to do it always but I would some % of the time, maybe 40-50%. I'm seeing a showdown regardless though in a blind situation and if he check/raises the turn I still call down but he probably has a 9.
|
Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
|
|
bigspenda73
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
|
|
The questions are:
What type of hand will he hold that can bluff the river but not call a turn bet?
What hands here are able to c/r this flop?
Your hand is underrepped (to take a NL concept) b/c you open-raised the button. Villian could be playing back at you with almost anything. In this case I believe checking behind the turn to induce a river bluff has to be the right play as I do not see many hands calling your turn bet. However, the times that villian happens to hold Ax you lose 1BB. You would need a read to figure the % of the time villian will bet-bluff a river here.
|
|
|
|
KoRnholio
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
In this case I believe checking behind the turn to induce a river bluff has to be the right play as I do not see many hands calling your turn bet. However, the times that villian happens to hold Ax you lose 1BB. You would need a read to figure the % of the time villian will bet-bluff a river here.
|
QFT. I don't see him having Ax here much, since most opponents would lead the turn with an ace. If he is decently aggressive letting him bluff the river is the right play, since I suspect more often than not he has either air or a 9 here.
|
|
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
|
|
bigspenda73
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
|
|
From villians perspective, why check the turn with a 9? That's ridiculously too tricky against a player who was able to call a flop c/r. He has to believe you would have a call downable type hand.
On another note, this is never a flop 3bet?
|
|
|
|
elipsesjeff
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
|
|
Quote:
|
On another note, this is never a flop 3bet?
|
Value now is better than maybe value later.
|
Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
|
|
bigspenda73
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
|
|
The thing is we are beating Ax(x<9) easily and they cannot counterfeit us w/o a King. Ax would have to call down in a blind war.
We are not beating a 9. It is 50/50 mathematically for villian to have a 9 or an Ace as there are 2 of each left in the deck. We will lose more against a 9 than we would win against Ax if we 3bet this flop (and subsequently get c/r'ed on the turn). If opponent has a PP he will c/f the turn in all likelihood. It's probably a pretty even play.
|
|
|
|
euphoricism
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
|
|
threebet flop, checkthrough turn, autocall river? :]
|
|
|
|
elipsesjeff
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
|
|
I like a 3bet flop as sometimes villain will out think himself and still call you down regardless. Villains are also rarely able to check/raise then fold to a 3bet on the flop all but guaranteeing another 1/2 BB when you're ahead. Against tricky opponents who are likely to think you too are tricky TAG, straightforward play is usually the best way to do it.
|
Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
|
|
Ltrain
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
|
|
The heading indicates BB is a TAG, and any TAG worth his salt is betting the turn after the flop checkraise if he has a 9. I put him more on low pockets looking for a cheap showdown or maybe a weaker ace. If he did checkraise with air, I don't think waiting to the river to see if he bluff bets will matter with most tight players. I bet again on the turn expecting him to fold or calldown unless I have notes his aggression ratings are high, in which case you could check the turn and raise the river.
|
|
"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
|
|
euphoricism
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
|
|
Tags dont often flatcall preflop with x9. Then again, tags dont often flatcall preflop at all - even the tricky ones.
|
|
|
|
|~|ypermegachi
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by euphoricism
Tags dont often flatcall preflop with x9. Then again, tags dont often flatcall preflop at all - even the tricky ones.
|
what do you do in the BB if you had 89, 99, T9, J9, Q9, K9, A9? you're not 3betting all of them are you? you're not folding any of them are you?
|
|
|
|
euphoricism
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
|
|
Ermm....
89 fold
99 raise
T9 probably fold unless suited which i guess I'd call.
J9 fold
Q9 fold
K9 fold, maybe consider a raise with a read.
A9 easier raise with a read, fold otherwise.
Note that my blind play has always been the absolute WORST part of my game.
|
|
|
|
Nehmer
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
|
|
FWIW, I am definately calling with 89s, T9s, J9s, and Q9s vs most even somewhat aggressive blindstealers. I will probably consider calls with J9o, Q9o, or K9o too. K9s is almost certainly a reraise.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by euphoricism
Ermm....
89 fold
99 raise
T9 probably fold unless suited which i guess I'd call.
J9 fold
Q9 fold
K9 fold, maybe consider a raise with a read.
A9 easier raise with a read, fold otherwise.
Note that my blind play has always been the absolute WORST part of my game. |
|
|
|
|
|~|ypermegachi
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by euphoricism
Note that my blind play has always been the absolute WORST part of my game. |
you do realize you're getting 3.5:1 just to call right?
i'm not a fan of 3betting preflop. sure...you gain initiative, but it's also an easy way to blow a lotta money postflop because you don't have position.
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
