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Top two pair big blind special.

  
 
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Renton
Old 06-10-2006, 08:03 AM     Post subject: Top two pair big blind special. #1 (permalink)  
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 Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, 7.
UTG calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) J, 5, 7 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, SB folds, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB


I am extremely new to SHLHE.
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euphoricism
Old 06-10-2006, 10:01 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Woa, UTG certainly woke up, didn't he.

First, I think he limped UTG with a big hand. AA, KK, something like that. He was hoping to limp/reraise, failed, and now he's going to hammer the flop instead. I think I cap the flop. As you played it, I actually like your stop'n'go on the turn, but when he raises, I think 3betting might be spewage. Call down from there.

I cap the flop, lead the turn, call down if he still raises there.

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Renton
Old 06-10-2006, 10:06 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 he had QQ and I felt like i lost value
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midas06
Old 06-10-2006, 10:58 AM #4 (permalink)  
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lol no you got about as much out of this hand as you could have. I thought UTG limped with a mid pp and owned you to tell the truth.
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thenonsequitur
Old 06-10-2006, 11:23 AM #5 (permalink)  
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I also half expected to see a set (of fives, sevens, or jacks).

I agree with euph's line.
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euphoricism
Old 06-10-2006, 07:34 PM #6 (permalink)  
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a set doesn't generally 3bet the flop. He'll pound you on the turn. This looked like overpair to me.

Of course, I'm seeing all sorts of weird play at 5/10 now, so it might be changing.
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thenonsequitur
Old 06-11-2006, 12:32 AM #7 (permalink)  
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I've lately noticed more and more players pounding the flop when they hit a set or better. I think people are catching on that raising or re-raising the flop with a very strong hand can be a good deceptive move.
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Harry
Old 06-11-2006, 02:06 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Keep in mind there are quite a few people at the low limits that just have no reasoning behind their play, ie:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K, A. UTG posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG (poster) checks, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero caps, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) K, 4, 2 (3 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 9 (3 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero caps, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (22.75 BB) 9 (3 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 24.75 BB

Results in white below:
BB has Ts Jd (one pair, nines).
Hero has Kc Ac (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 24.75 BB.
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Xanadu
Old 06-11-2006, 03:53 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Harry, you gotta learn the hand values for short games. You have to raise that river. The nut flush with a paired board is worth a river cap unless you have a read that tells you otherwise.
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6high
Old 06-11-2006, 03:57 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Bet the flop Renton.
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euphoricism
Old 06-11-2006, 04:28 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanadu
Harry, you gotta learn the hand values for short games. You have to raise that river. The nut flush with a paired board is worth a river cap unless you have a read that tells you otherwise.
Disagree. Reraising that river would be spewage.
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euphoricism
Old 06-11-2006, 04:30 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
he had QQ and I felt like i lost value
Nope, his limp gave you LOTS of value
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outphase
Old 06-11-2006, 02:23 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanadu
Harry, you gotta learn the hand values for short games. You have to raise that river. The nut flush with a paired board is worth a river cap unless you have a read that tells you otherwise.
Disagree. Reraising that river would be spewage.
i'm with euph here, any T or 6 takes him, what appears to be a set in this hand really gets him. his line also says set already.
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thenonsequitur
Old 06-11-2006, 04:12 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Here's my thoughts on hand Harry posted:

Looks like a sane BB's got a set on the flop or turn and filled up or quaded up on the river, so I don't really like raising the river against an unknown, especially when it's down to heads up. He doesn't necessarily have a FH or better, and there are still a number of hands you beat, but you just don't have good odds on a raise. Raising heads-up you lose 3 when BB is ahead and win 2 when you are ahead. If UTG had called the river a raise might make sense. Raising with UTG's dead money you lose 3 when BB is ahead and win 3 to 4 when you are ahead. A potential cap changes this analysis, but this simple view is good enough to show that if UTG had called the river you'd have much better odds on a raise.

Anyway, all of that is irrelevent in this case, because it assumes a sane BB. In this case BB is clearly either a maniac of sorts or heavily tilting, so if you have a read of that (which you should if you've been at this table for more than a few orbits), then this river is an easy cap.
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Xanadu
Old 06-11-2006, 04:38 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenonsequitur
Here's my thoughts on hand Harry posted:



Anyway, all of that is irrelevent in this case, because it assumes a sane BB. In this case BB is clearly either a maniac of sorts or heavily tilting, so if you have a read of that (which you should if you've been at this table for more than a few orbits), then this river is an easy cap.

Kind of what I meant by raise the river without a read that says not to. At these stakes, the norm is not sane play, so unless I respect the aggression of a player, this hand is an easy raise for me. I assume an unknown player is playing stupidly until I learn otherwise, and I think that wins more money.
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JohnnyDaly
Old 06-15-2006, 08:22 AM #16 (permalink)  

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As played, I'd check-raise the turn and call down if re-raised
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pokerfanatic
Old 06-15-2006, 05:09 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanadu
Harry, you gotta learn the hand values for short games. You have to raise that river. The nut flush with a paired board is worth a river cap unless you have a read that tells you otherwise.
Disagree. Reraising that river would be spewage.
You are on drugs, what are you smoking in that crack pipe? You actually think someone would have a 9 and play it like this? NO, you think 22 or 44 plays like this not so much at least at 0.5/1 they won’t. KK isn't likely at all because you have one... can’t really put him on 99 at this level given he 3 bet the flop, it's possible but not real probable both KK and 99 fall in that area... UTG folded so we know he doesn't have shit I’m 85% sure on this river I have best hand I’d probably raise call a 3 bet... with a read I might even cap... I just think this guy would likely flip up something like AA, AK, maybe QQ over played… it takes reads for me to get down exactly to what he probably has just of game theory it is more likely for you to have the best hand based upon a 3 bet range then it is for you to not have best hand I think not raising because the 9 pair is stupid, and being a big pussy… unless you got a read otherwise I raise here in a heart beat…

I'm rtalking about the AK hand and the flush...
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Harry
Old 06-15-2006, 07:18 PM #18 (permalink)  
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Btw, sorry for hijacking your thread Renton.... lol
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