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Nehmer
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08-03-2005, 05:45 PM
Post subject: Is this too weak postflop?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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I figure I have to assume with that many people seeing the flop one of them almost has to have an A or a J right?
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q , Q .
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.
Flop: (15.33 SB) A , J, J (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.
Turn: (7.66 BB) 2 (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, CO bets, Button folds, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero folds.
River: (9.66 BB) 5 (2 players)
BB bets, CO folds.
Final Pot: 10.66 BB
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A'aag
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loyal son of Rochester
Posts: 172
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I would take a stab on the flop and see what happens. You might get a cheap showdown that way. I really don't like folding in big pots without taking a shot somewhere unless I have nothing.
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thenonsequitur
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
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The AJJ flop is scary for QQ, so I check the flop following your same logic (somone most likely has an A or J, and I'm probably not going to fold either of them out by betting the flop).
When everyone checks the flop and it's checked to me on the turn, either someone is slowplaying jacks, somoneone has an A but is scared of jacks, or I have the best hand (I guess KK is possible too but let's ignore that). I think I have the best hand often enough to put in one turn bet hoping to either fold everyone out or get a cheap showdown. I fold to any bet or raise after that.
EDIT: Also note that with 5 people putting in 3 bets preflop, there are 15 small bets in the pot. If someone after you bets the flop and everyone else calls you are getting 1:19 on a call. So if someone had bet that flop after you, you should probably call--you have the implied odds to chase a Q.
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Gatlin Dan
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wild Bill's Backyard
Posts: 504
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If you had bet the flop, this pot would be way too big to fold for on bet on the river. You only have to beat him very rarely to make this call profitable. I bet the flop for information. There's enough people in this pot to make it worth speding the bet hear to find out where you stand.
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"A lot of fortunes are made on what you don't play."--"Miami" John Cernuto
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Do we have any reads on CO or button? What are they calling 3 cold with?
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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Gatlin Dan
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wild Bill's Backyard
Posts: 504
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TylerK
Do we have any reads on CO or button? What are they calling 3 cold with?
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I noticed this too. It's likely they are calling 3-bets with trash. Between the cards in your hand and what comes on the flop, there isn't that many hands left in the deck..
I never call 3-cold with anything. If you don't have anything in the pot yet and it's three bets to you, cold-cap or fold. If I know there is going to be at least five to flop and it's three to me, I might consider a cold-call with AQs , but I'm still going to muck it the majority of the time.
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"A lot of fortunes are made on what you don't play."--"Miami" John Cernuto
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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BB had Jx, nice laydown.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan
bet hear to find out where you stand.
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I hate this line of thinking, particularly online.
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Gatlin Dan
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wild Bill's Backyard
Posts: 504
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
BB had Jx, nice laydown.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan
bet hear to find out where you stand.
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I hate this line of thinking, particularly online. |
I do this a lot, if I know the other players are capable of folding and the pot large.
Why is this a bad play? I know often the information you gain isn't worth the bet, but I think there are times when this is beneficial.
Why is a worse play to do it online?
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"A lot of fortunes are made on what you don't play."--"Miami" John Cernuto
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan
I bet the flop for information. There's enough people in this pot to make it worth speding the bet hear to find out where you stand.
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Yes, but if everyone just calls your flop bet, what have you learned? Nothing really. You would still be in the guessing position of not knowing where you really stand.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RiverMonkey
Yes, but if everyone just calls your flop bet, what have you learned? Nothing really. You would still be in the guessing position of not knowing where you really stand.
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..and you've just become one step closer to pot-struck in the process.
How often is your flop bet taking this down 5-way? How often do you see more cards for that 1 bet (out of position) and improve?
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Trikflow77
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: im so asian
Posts: 1,460
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a jack would ckeck this flop, a ace would bet it. I would fold the turn here.
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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I would bet the flop, since I closed action preflop, the pot is large, and I want to maximize my chance of winning it.
This is one of the few times that I check behind on the turn (after I just posted that you should bet the turn in an almost identical hand)
and call the river.
The reason is, you are more likely to run into a check raise here, and you have a hand with showdown value, whereas you would have to fold to the checkraise.
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To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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