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Shark Bait

07-14-2005, 07:21 PM Post subject: Too tight?

#1 (permalink)

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I was talking with a friend about a recent trip to a B&M where I was playing the lowest limit, 2/4, 8 handed.

He said something about me playing tight, and I told him that when I was UTG+1 with KQs and UTG raised, I folded. He flipped out since he's a pretty loose player.

So I started thinking...Is this too tight?

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elipsesjeff

07-14-2005, 07:31 PM

#2 (permalink)

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nope.

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TylerK

07-14-2005, 07:35 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Depends on the table conditions. If I can count on a couple more cold-callers behind me, I'd probably call.

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Shark Bait

07-14-2005, 07:40 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerK

Depends on the table conditions. If I can count on a couple more cold-callers behind me, I'd probably call.

Well the way the table was playing, I could certainly count on at least 2-3 cold callers, but the problem is, I could also probably count on a re-raise.

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elipsesjeff

07-14-2005, 07:45 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerK

Depends on the table conditions. If I can count on a couple more cold-callers behind me, I'd probably call.

Still -EV. You need to be in position AND 2-3 cold callers to make this call. Being out of position, you have to fold.

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jmontis

07-14-2005, 07:59 PM

#6 (permalink)

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It's safe to say he'd get the calls, but still, that's an ugly spot to be in with KQ

pokerlearner

07-14-2005, 08:37 PM

#7 (permalink)

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I thought you could always make a call against a raise from any position with KQs (not KQ0). KQo i fold but KQs is too good a hand to fold against just 1 raise...no ?

elipsesjeff

07-14-2005, 08:55 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Never say always. In actuality it depends on your opponent. If a maniac is raising UTG then you should probably 3-bet him to isolate. If a rock is raising UTG then folding is the best play.

If an average player is raising UTG, then you have to say to yourself: What would I be raising with UTG. More often than not, you'll be dominated and should find a fold. That is why you need more than 2-3 cold callers in teh pot, because at this point you are going for the broadway/flush/two pair on the flop. You will hardly win a TP battle with KQ facing 5 cold callers. Either you're dominated or are sharing outs, both are bad situations to be in.

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Shark Bait

07-14-2005, 09:40 PM

#9 (permalink)

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I'm at least glad to see that this isn't an "easy call" as my friend put it.

I purposely left out the results of the hand, but that doesn't matter since I folded. The point is do I fold call or raise preflop. I think if I had known with 100% certainty that there would have been no raises after me, I would have called. But since I was more than expecting a raise, I fold.

I never found out what UTG had. He folded on the flop. Everyone that called his raise had complete crap, especially the BB who had J3o and ended up winning with a flush using the 3. I would have had king high.

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Fnord

07-14-2005, 11:09 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerK

Depends on the table conditions. If I can count on a couple more cold-callers behind me, I'd probably call.

Still -EV. You need to be in position AND 2-3 cold callers to make this call. Being out of position, you have to fold.

I still say it depends. In a good loosie goosie passive game and an opponent with a reasonable or aggro raising standard you can call here. In the described game, I'm calling unless the initial raiser has a tight raising standard.

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elipsesjeff

07-15-2005, 09:58 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q

, K

.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 raises, Hero calls, 5 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (8.66 SB) 4

, J

, T

(4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (8.33 BB) 9

(2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls.

River: (10.33 BB) 7

(2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 12.33 BB

Results in white below:
UTG+2 has Jh Ks (one pair, jacks).
Hero has Qc Kc (straight, king high).
Outcome: Hero wins 12.33 BB.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with K

, J

. CO posts a blind of $15.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 raises, 2 folds, CO (poster) calls, Hero calls, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 7

, 2

, J

(5 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, CO folds, Hero raises, SB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) K

(2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 5

(2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Kd Jd (two pair, kings and jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins 10.50 BB.

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ender555

07-15-2005, 03:59 PM

#12 (permalink)

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now show us the other 10 flops where you didnt get a sweet flop or were dominated :P

TylerK

07-15-2005, 07:36 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ender555

now show us the other 10 flops where you didnt get a sweet flop or were dominated :P

Even if that's the case, then he's up a net 12BB with these 2 hands and the 10 you want to see. Sounds pretty profitable to me.

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elipsesjeff

07-15-2005, 07:42 PM

#14 (permalink)

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I think I've cold called five times in 4.5k hands, the above two happening last night. Averaging almost 2 BB per hand. However, 2 of the cold calls I probably shouldn't have made:

A8s and KQo.

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allLiving

07-17-2005, 05:02 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Too tight, too loose, it doesn't matter at those crappy 2/4 limits since every player at the table wears a WPT hat and thinks they are the fucking best poker player ever. They chase EVERYTHING, and justify their running flush draw by saying, "I had a gutshot on the flop too..." 2/4 is a craps shoot and I would play KQs anywhere for 1 raise.

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allLiving

07-17-2005, 05:02 PM

#16 (permalink)

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Also, don't give those retards credit for ANY hand, they play complete and utter shit.

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ihategnomes

07-17-2005, 05:24 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Are you old enough to have been at a casino?

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allLiving

07-17-2005, 05:31 PM

#18 (permalink)

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Yes I go all the time in fact.

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ihategnomes

07-17-2005, 09:46 PM

#19 (permalink)

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For some reason I thought you were like 16.

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