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midas06
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01-13-2006, 08:35 AM
Post subject: Too cute on flop?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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PokerRoom 2/4 Hold'em (3 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
Preflop: Hero is Button with 7 , 7 .
Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls.
Flop: (4.50 SB) 7 , 3 , 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.
Turn: (2.25 BB) T (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.
River: (10.25 BB) J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.
Final Pot: 12.25 BB
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Andy Holt
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: They were suited!
Posts: 336
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I would mix it up a lot in that spot depending on my read of the player in the BB. Missing the c-bet is not a crime if you can get him to come along on the turn.
I don't think any further discussion is warranted or necessary.
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Wow...
I would have bet and he might have folded or maybe only called the turn.
I think checking the flop is what made him 3-bet the turn. Nicely done.
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Kessler
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 117
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I think he may have caught some piece of that flop, but didn't like it very much, mid pair/crap kicker or something. He probably thought you were just shoving him around with overcards, which induced the 3bet turn. He only figured out you weren't kidding once the turn was capped, so he check/called the river.
Ni Han, I like it. Nice way to get a couple of extra bets. 
-Kes
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If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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in suer SH games like 3 handed and HU you MUST mix up your game without giving too much an edge away... i like how it was played sometimes i bet sometimes i slow roll...
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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Phyl
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 396
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I think the flop check coupled with the turn raise is a stronger indication that you have a strong hand than just betting the flop. The continuation bet is so standard that the BB isn't going to give it any more credit than he gave your preflop raise.
This is just missing bets IMO.
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phyl
I think the flop check coupled with the turn raise is a stronger indication that you have a strong hand than just betting the flop. The continuation bet is so standard that the BB isn't going to give it any more credit than he gave your preflop raise.
This is just missing bets IMO.
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it's 3 handed, players could have as little as TP and play this way sometimes i see it wit ha FD, though i bet the flop a lot here with a floped set and hope he was slow rolling TPTK like a dip shit... in this situation it seams like your up atangst 56, a FD, a small set like 33 or 44, or 89s in dimands, when he only calls on the river it makes me thjink he has a hand like 88 or 99 he was over playing or AT...
i think we both got to the same reasoning but for diffrent reasons, in 3 handed your hand range is much wider, however once he caps it is less likely he has a draw, but still could have a set, two pair, or any over pair, looking from villians prospectus, looking from our prospectus what can villian cold call PF then check the flop then donk/3bet the turn, it seems like AT, 89s, AK-AJs dimands (if real argo), some shitty two pair, or a set... logicly JJ-AA doesn't make since because he would 3 bet it, maybe same with TT... so it makes more since that he is over playing a hand that you can beat and a cap is correct, and there for the check is correct on the flop in this situation beacause the oponnet over plays a lot of hands you beat...
other cases i think beating the flop is fine...
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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Phyl
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 396
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfanatic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phyl
I think the flop check coupled with the turn raise is a stronger indication that you have a strong hand than just betting the flop. The continuation bet is so standard that the BB isn't going to give it any more credit than he gave your preflop raise.
This is just missing bets IMO.
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it's 3 handed, players could have as little as TP and play this way sometimes i see it wit ha FD, though i bet the flop a lot here with a floped set and hope he was slow rolling TPTK like a dip shit... in this situation it seams like your up atangst 56, a FD, a small set like 33 or 44, or 89s in dimands, when he only calls on the river it makes me thjink he has a hand like 88 or 99 he was over playing or AT...
i think we both got to the same reasoning but for diffrent reasons, in 3 handed your hand range is much wider, however once he caps it is less likely he has a draw, but still could have a set, two pair, or any over pair, looking from villians prospectus, looking from our prospectus what can villian cold call PF then check the flop then donk/3bet the turn, it seems like AT, 89s, AK-AJs dimands (if real argo), some shitty two pair, or a set... logicly JJ-AA doesn't make since because he would 3 bet it, maybe same with TT... so it makes more since that he is over playing a hand that you can beat and a cap is correct, and there for the check is correct on the flop in this situation beacause the oponnet over plays a lot of hands you beat...
other cases i think beating the flop is fine...
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I see what you're saying but I'm skeptical that the action Hero recieved on the turn was actually a result of the flop check.
My reasoning for saying that this line represents strength is that since the pot is only 3BB and a raise is 2BB this is largely an unprofitable bluffing opportunity and therefore is likely to be for value (I think that most players are at least somewhat aware of this). I also feel that the flop check looks really suspicious, if Hero had Ace high or some other hand that missed the flop he'd probably bet it every time. It looks like he's up to something and this kind of trickyness usually means a big hand.
But hey what do I know, I don't even play shorthanded.
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