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Too cute on flop?

  
 
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midas06
Old 01-13-2006, 08:35 AM     Post subject: Too cute on flop? #1 (permalink)  
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Preflop: Hero is Button with 7, 7.
Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 7, 3, 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2.25 BB) T (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

River: (10.25 BB) J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB
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Andy Holt
Old 01-13-2006, 03:32 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I would mix it up a lot in that spot depending on my read of the player in the BB. Missing the c-bet is not a crime if you can get him to come along on the turn.

I don't think any further discussion is warranted or necessary.
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Old 01-13-2006, 05:29 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Wow...
I would have bet and he might have folded or maybe only called the turn.

I think checking the flop is what made him 3-bet the turn. Nicely done.
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Kessler
Old 01-13-2006, 07:55 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I think he may have caught some piece of that flop, but didn't like it very much, mid pair/crap kicker or something. He probably thought you were just shoving him around with overcards, which induced the 3bet turn. He only figured out you weren't kidding once the turn was capped, so he check/called the river.

Ni Han, I like it. Nice way to get a couple of extra bets.


-Kes
If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.
 
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pokerfanatic
Old 01-13-2006, 11:40 PM #5 (permalink)  
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in suer SH games like 3 handed and HU you MUST mix up your game without giving too much an edge away... i like how it was played sometimes i bet sometimes i slow roll...
“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~

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Phyl
Old 01-21-2006, 01:03 AM #6 (permalink)  
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I think the flop check coupled with the turn raise is a stronger indication that you have a strong hand than just betting the flop. The continuation bet is so standard that the BB isn't going to give it any more credit than he gave your preflop raise.

This is just missing bets IMO.
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pokerfanatic
Old 01-21-2006, 03:18 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyl
I think the flop check coupled with the turn raise is a stronger indication that you have a strong hand than just betting the flop. The continuation bet is so standard that the BB isn't going to give it any more credit than he gave your preflop raise.

This is just missing bets IMO.
it's 3 handed, players could have as little as TP and play this way sometimes i see it wit ha FD, though i bet the flop a lot here with a floped set and hope he was slow rolling TPTK like a dip shit... in this situation it seams like your up atangst 56, a FD, a small set like 33 or 44, or 89s in dimands, when he only calls on the river it makes me thjink he has a hand like 88 or 99 he was over playing or AT...

i think we both got to the same reasoning but for diffrent reasons, in 3 handed your hand range is much wider, however once he caps it is less likely he has a draw, but still could have a set, two pair, or any over pair, looking from villians prospectus, looking from our prospectus what can villian cold call PF then check the flop then donk/3bet the turn, it seems like AT, 89s, AK-AJs dimands (if real argo), some shitty two pair, or a set... logicly JJ-AA doesn't make since because he would 3 bet it, maybe same with TT... so it makes more since that he is over playing a hand that you can beat and a cap is correct, and there for the check is correct on the flop in this situation beacause the oponnet over plays a lot of hands you beat...

other cases i think beating the flop is fine...
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Phyl
Old 01-21-2006, 02:23 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyl
I think the flop check coupled with the turn raise is a stronger indication that you have a strong hand than just betting the flop. The continuation bet is so standard that the BB isn't going to give it any more credit than he gave your preflop raise.

This is just missing bets IMO.
it's 3 handed, players could have as little as TP and play this way sometimes i see it wit ha FD, though i bet the flop a lot here with a floped set and hope he was slow rolling TPTK like a dip shit... in this situation it seams like your up atangst 56, a FD, a small set like 33 or 44, or 89s in dimands, when he only calls on the river it makes me thjink he has a hand like 88 or 99 he was over playing or AT...

i think we both got to the same reasoning but for diffrent reasons, in 3 handed your hand range is much wider, however once he caps it is less likely he has a draw, but still could have a set, two pair, or any over pair, looking from villians prospectus, looking from our prospectus what can villian cold call PF then check the flop then donk/3bet the turn, it seems like AT, 89s, AK-AJs dimands (if real argo), some shitty two pair, or a set... logicly JJ-AA doesn't make since because he would 3 bet it, maybe same with TT... so it makes more since that he is over playing a hand that you can beat and a cap is correct, and there for the check is correct on the flop in this situation beacause the oponnet over plays a lot of hands you beat...

other cases i think beating the flop is fine...
I see what you're saying but I'm skeptical that the action Hero recieved on the turn was actually a result of the flop check.

My reasoning for saying that this line represents strength is that since the pot is only 3BB and a raise is 2BB this is largely an unprofitable bluffing opportunity and therefore is likely to be for value (I think that most players are at least somewhat aware of this). I also feel that the flop check looks really suspicious, if Hero had Ace high or some other hand that missed the flop he'd probably bet it every time. It looks like he's up to something and this kind of trickyness usually means a big hand.

But hey what do I know, I don't even play shorthanded.
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