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Today's triple barrel.

  
 
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dsaxton
Old 10-16-2006, 08:50 PM     Post subject: Today's triple barrel. #1 (permalink)  
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Opponent appears weak tight. Thoughts?

PokerStars 10/20 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, T.
Hero raises, MP calls, 3 folds.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 5, 4, J (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

River: (5.75 BB) K (2 players)
Hero bets
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elipsesjeff
Old 10-16-2006, 09:33 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 Any WSD/W$SD stats? The King is a good card for you and your river bet is the most important bet on all three streets. It is the one that has to work the least % wise for you to make the most. It's definately high variance but also pretty standard, given the way you played the hand.

Even 5 handed, i've gone back to doubt the profitability of crap hands like QTo UTG. As, even HU, you're an underdog to all hands that call you. Use with caution and i still go back and forth between raising and folding with this hand in this spot. Ironically, I bet it doesn't matter what you do with it.


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dsaxton
Old 10-16-2006, 09:41 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Even 5 handed, i've gone back to doubt the profitability of crap hands like QTo UTG. As, even HU, you're an underdog to all hands that call you. Use with caution and i still go back and forth between raising and folding with this hand in this spot. Ironically, I bet it doesn't matter what you do with it.
Yeah, raising this hand UTG is not standard for me at all, but I was playing a bit laggier than normal.
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StinkyBeaver
Old 10-18-2006, 02:20 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Really you shouldn't mind this hand at all. as Jeff says the K is a good card for you and firring 3 barrels obviously looks strong.

It's a good play provided that you don't overuse it. That beeing said you need to tell me that MP is peeling flops light for a turn bet to be correct IMO. as there are few hands that we can represent.
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elipsesjeff
Old 10-18-2006, 03:19 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinkyBeaver
Really you shouldn't mind this hand at all. as Jeff says the K is a good card for you and firring 3 barrels obviously looks strong.

It's a good play provided that you don't overuse it. That beeing said you need to tell me that MP is peeling flops light for a turn bet to be correct IMO. as there are few hands that we can represent.
Yeah, I agree. In many situations I only Cbet here again on the turn with AQ+ as we surprisingly have a lot showdown potential with these hands. Of course, I then would check/call any river with these hands hoping to get a bluff. The way you played it, you HAVE to bet this river though, as checking here and giving up this pot would be massive leakage.

There is a fine line on this turn between spewing and having enough folding equity. As Beaver said, you can't do this all the time, let alone 1/2 the time. I think Shania is in effect here a lot as well. If this was among the first hands at the table, I'm more likely to check/fold this turn to set up situations down the line where I can cbet the turn more profitability.

In my experiences, once they catch you bluff once, you can no longer do it again and I usually leave the table. Especially since I am more likely to have absolute garbage more than getting TPTK 'paid off.'


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StinkyBeaver
Old 10-18-2006, 10:21 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Yeah, I agree. In many situations I only Cbet here again on the turn with AQ+ as we surprisingly have a lot showdown potential with these hands. Of course, I then would check/call any river with these hands hoping to get a bluff. The way you played it, you HAVE to bet this river though, as checking here and giving up this pot would be massive leakage.
Just found a hand here that fits good with above statement. I recall this villian as playing a lot of hands and betting a lot if check to. Basically one of the fish in my game. you'll see why

http://www.pokerhand.org/?563600
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pokerfanatic
Old 10-18-2006, 12:22 PM #7 (permalink)  
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come out with guns blazing baby...
i probably fire the last barrel when the K comes too sometimes you gots to make that last effort and look like an idiot when it doesn't work...
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arkitekton
Old 11-03-2006, 10:41 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Glad to hear you aren't routinely raising UTG w junk like QToff

To my way of thinking, after the flop bet you're just spewing. As I don't doubt you're aware, most of the value of your raise comes when it allows you to steal successfully or, failing that, when you hit the flop. You did neither, and your third barrel, to me, is the flop bet. Once that fails to fold the villain, you're done.
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KY_Ace
Old 12-25-2006, 07:19 AM #9 (permalink)  
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The 8 is a good card for you, gives you an extra 4 outs, you could have as many as 10 outs vs a hand like 77 but that's a little optomistic. I'd say that you can count on a Q or a 9 to take it down giving you 7 outs, you're about 5.5 to 1, if you include implied odds for him paying you on the river, you'de be getting just the right price to call if you checked and he bet. In this situation out of position I bet because checking usually dosn't save you any money and betting gives you folding equity. After betting all the way with Q high I will always bet the river, especially with a good scare card, it dosn't have to work very often to be a profitable bet.

The interesting thing about this situation is that your opponent makes more $$ just calling the turn with a hand like ace-jack than he does by raising. When he raises he loses an extra bet when you river him and he prevents you from bluffing the river when you miss. If he just calls he minimizes his loss when you river him and forces you to bet the river when you miss, because you don't know if he's on a flush draw or a straight draw or actually has a hand he can call you with, and checking Q high is the wrong play unless you are very sure that your opponent has at least a good pair.

This is why it's better to raise this crap from the button or cutoff and play against the blinds. You then have the option to take a free card on the turn and he can bet into you on the river so you don't have to bluff with Q high, you only lose 1.5BB when you have positon.

5 handed I would normally only raise QT UTG if it was suited, but every table is different and it's ok to mix up your play, I would probably raise this opening from the CO and definately opening on the button, 1 position changes so much. The rest of the hand I would definately keep betting once I get call by a player with position on me.

The shitty part about being out of position is that it's usually correct to bet out with hands that you'd call with if you checked and he bet, then the river bet has amazing pot odds, it makes playing out of position risky and usually -ve EV when you have a shitty hand. Getting called by the MP player always sucks and makes you wish you had folded, but it's too late and at that point I think betting the rest of the hand is the right line when your opponent showns no strength and you have outs on the turn. If you didn't pick up the stright draw on the turn, definately check-fold, checking sometimes will also give you more credibility when you do bet. Heads up I like to bet OOP with 6 or more outs and bet in position with 10+ outs incuding overs.
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spino1i
Old 02-03-2007, 02:39 AM #10 (permalink)  
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ehh decent idea but I think your spewing with that line with QTo most of the time. He just gets curious for one more big bet and calls with any decent pair too many times. Draws that missed (and you beat anyways with queen high) fold. I guess you can fold out ace high.

I shut down after the flop bet.
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