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jmontis
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08-22-2005, 10:32 PM
Post subject: theory behind calling a reraise
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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in the world of perfect poker, we fold with the worst hand, and raise with the better one.
If pot odds make the call a marginal one, is it better to fold on the basis that your opponent may only reraise with an obvious monster/nut hand?
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
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its better to call on the marginal side. By calling and losing you lose one bet. By folding a hand that would have won you lose many more.
BTW, If your opponent only reraises with an obvious monster/nut hand, then its not a marginal situation. I need 10-1 or better to make a call against the nuts.
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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alright, I'm just trying to sharpen up my calling skills, because I really hate calling raises, I'd rather reraise or fold.
I guess it comes from playing so much NL, I should probably "loosen" up a bit more in limit.
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jmontis
alright, I'm just trying to sharpen up my calling skills, because I really hate calling raises, I'd rather reraise or fold.
I guess it comes from playing so much NL, I should probably "loosen" up a bit more in limit.
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not necessarily, don't cold call preflop, but as long as you have odds its okay to draw in LHE (it really drives some players nuts).
I really hate folding without a real bad piece of the flop and some previous intention I'm beat. You really only need 7-1 to call with bottom pair....
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
not necessarily, don't cold call preflop, but as long as you have odds its okay to draw in LHE (it really drives some players nuts).
I really hate folding without a real bad piece of the flop and some previous intention I'm beat. You really only need 7-1 to call with bottom pair....
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I understand that, I'm just referring to post flop. I have very solid preflop and positional card standards. I'm finally getting to the point of NOT folding winning hands post flop.
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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pokerlearner
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: california
Posts: 366
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ellipsis, can you please explain the concept to me. I think I might be playing too weak. I fold the bottom or even middle pair without any backdoor flush draw.
Say I have 56s and flop is K-10-6 rainbow. I would fold that regardless of size of the pot (could already be behind 2 pair or potential two pair by the river). What situations can I call when i only have bottom or middle pair (with no overcards).
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerlearner
ellipsis, can you please explain the concept to me. I think I might be playing too weak. I fold the bottom or even middle pair without any backdoor flush draw.
Say I have 56s and flop is K-10-6 rainbow. I would fold that regardless of size of the pot (could already be behind 2 pair or potential two pair by the river). What situations can I call when i only have bottom or middle pair (with no overcards).
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Givin the board is three suited (even better if one is of the two in your head), you only need really 7-1 pot odds to call down, as long as you are getting that then you have reason to call. You have 5 outs (a little better than a gutshot draw) and you will hit it about 1 in 9 times or so and win. With implied odds, you really only 7-1 pot odds.
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if another six comes, it's doubtfull anyone else has it
in a big pot it might be worth calling
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pokerlearner
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: california
Posts: 366
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Thanks Elipsis and iopq, but I guess my next dumb question was inevitable ?
So what would the difference between a fish and me then? Fish would call down with bottom pair and I am calling down with bottom pair. A lot of the times in "no foldem holdem" games there wil be 7:1 by the time it gest to you in late position on flop (4-5 preflop calls, 1 postflop calls). so is the fish actually making the correct decision chasing the trips or 2nd pair.
Thanks again for taking the time. I feel this is one part of the game that I have never analysed. I was folding bottom pair always UNLESS
1) I have a back door flush draw (I have 2 suited and one suit appears on flop and I make my bottom pair on flop) or the awesome four to a flush and bottom pair.
2) The pot is huge and My overcard is pretty big (A,K) and no straight or flush possiblity there.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerlearner
Thanks Elipsis and iopq, but I guess my next dumb question was inevitable ?
So what would the difference between a fish and me then? Fish would call down with bottom pair and I am calling down with bottom pair. A lot of the times in "no foldem holdem" games there wil be 7:1 by the time it gest to you in late position on flop (4-5 preflop calls, 1 postflop calls). so is the fish actually making the correct decision chasing the trips or 2nd pair.
Thanks again for taking the time. I feel this is one part of the game that I have never analysed. I was folding bottom pair always UNLESS
1) I have a back door flush draw (I have 2 suited and one suit appears on flop and I make my bottom pair on flop) or the awesome four to a flush and bottom pair.
2) The pot is huge and My overcard is pretty big (A,K) and no straight or flush possiblity there.
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Fish call down, you fold if you don't make the draw. Also, you fold if you don't have the odds. Fish call regardless.
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