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TylerK
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08-12-2007, 04:18 PM
Post subject: Take free card or fire again?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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villian is a 40/1 type.
PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A , Q .
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 5 folds, UTG+1 calls.
Flop: (5.40 SB) 5 , 2, 2 (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls.
Turn: (4.70 BB) 4 (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero ...
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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I like to get to cheap showdowns whenever possible in situations like this, so I'm taking the free card.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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He's never folding a better hand and you'll most likely get a really cheap showdown if you check.
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KitCloudkicker
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: www.twoplustwo.com
Posts: 5
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i dont understand the flop raise.
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by KitCloudkicker
i dont understand the flop raise.
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I think my outs are clean, and I want a free card.
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Raising this flop is so last year.
Just call without cause to raise. If you think he's FoS call 3 streets.
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KitCloudkicker
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: www.twoplustwo.com
Posts: 5
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if you wanted a free card why are you even considering betting the turn?
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Raising this flop is so last year.
Just call without cause to raise. If you think he's FoS call 3 streets.
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I guess I am rusty. Calling is the new raising?
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TylerK
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Raising this flop is so last year.
Just call without cause to raise. If you think he's FoS call 3 streets.
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I guess I am rusty. Calling is the new raising? |
Showing down AQ unimproved on boards that look blank against loose agressive post-flop players is good poker. Raising for a free card defines your hand and opens you up to a 3-bet that might still be air spewing at you.
The line here is call the flop and re-evalute on the turn + river.
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by KitCloudkicker
if you wanted a free card why are you even considering betting the turn?
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I wasn't really, but then I did for some reason and I wanted to see what other people felt about it.
So I'm getting the impression that "bet when checked to" is no longer standard?
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TylerK
So I'm getting the impression that "bet when checked to" is no longer standard?
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It depends. I think a big part of this hand is figuring out if the looseness and aggression is high enough to play it like a short-handed hand.
Another option is to threaten him with 2 big bets by raising the turn, although it's kinda of a shame to turn this into a bluff and his stats are pretty retarded to boot.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Raising this flop is so last year.
Just call without cause to raise. If you think he's FoS call 3 streets.
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so true, he's prlly not folding any pair here, since you hand stinks like a draw.
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Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Raising the flop with overcards for a free river is probably the dumbest play in limit holdem. Raise the flop if you think there's a good chance he's on a complete bluff (not if he's either semi-bluffing or betting a better hand), and then bet the turn as well. Otherwise, call down or call flop and fold turn improved if he's a passive player and continues betting.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
Raising the flop with overcards for a free river is probably the dumbest play in limit holdem. Raise the flop if you think there's a good chance he's on a complete bluff (not if he's either semi-bluffing or betting a better hand), and then bet the turn as well. Otherwise, call down or call flop and fold turn improved if he's a passive player and continues betting.
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Not true at all. If you're going to call down anyway the play saves you 1 SB and gives your opponent to bluff into weakness again on a missed draw. If he leads the turn again you're much more likely to be behind (because he doesn't want to give you the free card) and you can fold, saving another 1 SB than calling flop and turn and folding the river. If he's passive it doesn't matter because you weren't going to call down anyway.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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I love 40-1 types, except for the suckouts and depending on their post-flop aggression...
I would check in this situation. You aren't really ahead of much here and I imagine he is unlikely to fold. Also, what do you do if he cr's you? (fold i guess). If you think he has nothing then find out for cheap - at most 1BB more on the river.
Also, if you bet the flop for a free card = take the free card when it's offered!
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NWNewell
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kennedy Space Center, FL
Posts: 283
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Heads up against this guy, I have no problem raising the flop. But I'm also betting the turn.
You have tons of equity against his range. I don't really think his flop bet tells you a lot. He could be betting two overs (or a flush draw) with semi-bluffing because of the paired board (and figuring that board probably missed your hand too). I don't think he has the 2 or 5 all that often.
It is an easy fold to a 3-bet.
And if you take your free card and a blank falls do you need to look this guy up if he bets the river? If so, it would be better to bet the turn (and take advantage of your fold equity when HU), and then take a free showdown or fold to a river bet UI.
That would probably be my line anyway.
But what is his post flop aggression anyway... if he is uber passive (and wouldn't bet the flop or the river without hitting), then you should take your free card (and actually consider folding to his flop bet for that matter).
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