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ender555
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06-27-2005, 04:59 AM
Post subject: suited connectors and aces?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 647
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i have been limping these and raising in position..
are these worth playing if no one else is in the pot and you are in middle position?
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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at yr typical fishy full-ring they do okay. 'Course you need not to count on pairs that come your way with these hands; don't you dare cold-call with this crap ... I think you can profitably cold call with QJs or better
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ender555
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 647
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i dont think your advice makes a lot of sense, not trying to attack you. Why QJs and up if im only playing them for straits/flush's/2-pair/trips?
I like all the middle suited 1 and 2 gappers especially and so far have done pretty well with them. I do occasionally call or raise when i think someoens just betting with 2 overs and i pair up.... but generally i let them go with ease.
i was just wondering if its bad to call and then call a raise with these things coz that happens a lot... is there a guideline of how many ppl should be in the pot for these to have playable odds?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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If no one else is in the pot and I'm in the CO or Button, I'd rather open raise K9o than 87s. In short-handed pots big cards are important. Multi-way, staights and flushes gain value.
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Note: "you can profitably cold call with QJs or better". When it's raised to you and you've got a hand like this you're playing for a cheap showdown if dominated and a surprise squishy if you hit a nut draw.
When unraised, you can limp with a LOT of others. Hell SSH says that in loose games 43s and 53s are good to go in late position if unraised. I don't go down quite that far myself. More on that later.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ender555
i was just wondering if its bad to call and then call a raise with these things coz that happens a lot... is there a guideline of how many ppl should be in the pot for these to have playable odds?
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Yes, unfortunately SSH doesn't talk about this situation in its starting hand recs. My own guidelines: for the really speculative crap (say 76s-75s) you want to be pretty sure it'll go 5+ to the flop, and that another PF raise isn't coming. So you're MP and the button raises it, and you've got a fairly timid LP limper along with the blinds.
You can feel a bit better with e.g. 97s, 87s. But even there I don't think you lose a lot of money passing these in borderline situations. Most of your money comes from your postflop play, not your starting hand requirements. When you're confident you can beat the other players later, you won't have to cringe when it gets raised back to you and you've got this sort of hand. But that takes a lot of time.
Axs is better than any of those, by the way. At the right tables you can lump a lot of Kxs in there too.
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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the short answer is no
unless you are at a super-loose, super-passive table such as can be often found in B&M cardrooms.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LeFou
Yes, unfortunately SSH doesn't talk about this situation in its starting hand recs. My own guidelines: for the really speculative crap (say 76s-75s) you want to be pretty sure it'll go 5+ to the flop, and that another PF raise isn't coming. So you're MP and the button raises it, and you've got a fairly timid LP limper along with the blinds. |
I'll over-limp all kinds of crap like that on the button after 2 bad limpers.
I'll start cold-calling stuff like s00ted connectors if the pot looks to be 5-6+ way and I have position. Also, I consider my position relative to the aggressor in situations like that. If I'm first to act after him, I'm less inclined to come in with a speculative hand because trapping the field is going to be more difficult.
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