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gobbledygeek
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05-08-2006, 07:33 PM
Post subject: Sucking at 2/4 limit
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19
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Howdy. Long story short, I've played 55 or so hours at casino 2/4 limit and I'm sucking big time, about -3.2BB/hour. From what I've seen so far (and not just of my hands) this game seems to be 99% luck. Or perhaps I really am a horrible player and people just love seeing me sit down at their table. I've played over a dozen sessions and have only had one winning one, one or two small losses, a couple of moderate losses, the rest big losses. And the more and more I learn, the worse the losses get. Anyhoo, enough of the griping.
I'm going to post some hands as best as I can remember them (separate posts) and I'm looking for any pointers/comments/insults. Thanks for any responses.
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outphase
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
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2/4 LHE in a casino is a crapfest, deal with it. Based on some of your posts, you are not adjusting to the looseness of the game and you're outthinking yourself and probably giving your opponents too much credit
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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And youre probably discounting the rake. The rake at low limits is massive.
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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well i had the worst fucking time with 2/4 full ring online, i busted half my bank roll 3 times (moved up lost my roll, move up lost the roll, est )
Then i went to 1/2 short handed and havn't looked back since probably be moving up to 5/10 SH come this month hopefully mid but for sure late...
SH just fits my playing style more, and there are hell of a lot more donkeys that play it badly...
If you are talking about 2/4 live you might as well go play the craps table rake is to large for you to win anyways…
Honestly I have seen some rakes live that it’s hard to beat at 5/10!
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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gobbledygeek
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19
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I'm not exactly sure how much the casino is taking in the rake (I'll have to pay closer attention), but what would the typical "good" player then be down to at 2/4; about even? I'm just a recreational player that would like to hold his own and have it not cost me too much money. Hell, even playing for a -1BB/hour is decent bang for my entertainment buck. But dropping -33.5BB in a little over 4 hours like I did the other day is horrible. I still can't decide if it's the cards (in the 4 hours my best starting hands were 1010, 88, AJo, A9o, QJo, J9s, do I even include 87s), my play or both. I've been told that you have to play upwards of 300 hours before you can sorta get a grasp on the overall status of your game.
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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most players will tell you the rake at anything less than 4/8 is unreasonable - at a live game they deal roughly 30 hands per hour. The rake is typically 10% at the casinos I play, up to $4 max - Most 2/4 games go to the river with massive pots - $4 a hand plus a $1 tip (and a lot of players tip more) and you've got $150 coming off the table every hour - So a lot of the money goes "down the tube" as they say - Now, all these games can be beaten - It's not a crapshoot - You just have to change your game a bit - Now most 2/4 games are going to be full of bad players - the way to beat bad players is to show them a winning hand - But you have to take into account that when you even have AA against a full table, it isn't going to hold up much - it's only 1 pair - What i would recommend is playing more hands - The 2/4 games i play are pretty passive, so limp more hands and try to outflop people - Play connecters in the back, the little pocket pairs, the J,9s kind of hands - Basically you want to outflop people, but in order to do this you have to see more flops - DON'T go overboard and start playing J,7s to a 3 bet preflop - I just mean if the table is passive (like most are) play as many cards as cheap as you can - If you get some help on the flop or a big draw, thats when you make them pay - See more turn cards - Even when you have very little of a flop, the turn card only costs you a small bet most of the time - If so, see a turn card - Again, don't take this too far, but when you have a piece of the flop and it costs you only 1 small bet, pay to see the turn - don't bluff people too often, if ever - expect to get called down - but the good thing is that when you flop a big hand you can raise the turn and river and they will still pay to see it - thats whne you cna make some money -
See more flops, but be willing to fold more often when you don't hit anything - 2/4 really is supposed to be a learning stepping stone really - Not so you can beat 2/4 all the time, but so that you can move up ranks - I wouldn't play like the books tell you though - it's too tight for most of those low limit games - Also, me personally I never got to the point where I killed the game all the time - What would happen is I would go in and lose a little some days, win a little some days and then have a nice big win - don't expect to kill a 2/4 game - you've got a lot of people drawing against you most hands -
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Well, 30 bets in 4 hours isn't that bad. Its not a good night, but its only a little worse than a standard bad night.
It is very difficult for us, without watching the table, to tell you that youre playing bad, or running bad, or what. From the hands you posted on here, you look to be playing fine. The only thing to really do is keep on reading, keep on studying, and keep on playing. Yes, for four hours you could easily be cold decked. It happens.
We can debate the "how long do I need to play to be sure that I'm winning" crap alllllll day long. (And we have.) but suffice to say, 4 hours aint enough.
I think you'll be ok. You read your copy of SSH, right? Then youll be fine, give it some more time.
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gobbledygeek
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LimpinAintEZ
See more flops, but be willing to fold more often when you don't hit anything - 2/4 really is supposed to be a learning stepping stone really - Not so you can beat 2/4 all the time, but so that you can move up ranks - I wouldn't play like the books tell you though - it's too tight for most of those low limit games - Also, me personally I never got to the point where I killed the game all the time - What would happen is I would go in and lose a little some days, win a little some days and then have a nice big win - don't expect to kill a 2/4 game - you've got a lot of people drawing against you most hands -
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I have thought of perhaps playing a lot more starting hands, perhaps because I've folded so many marginal hands preflop only to see them hit on the flop; but I'm thinking that happens to everyone all the time. My goal was to win a little some todays, lose a little some days, in the end kinda break even. But I would think that if I played looser the volatility would be quite high (big losses / wins), I'm not sure I could handle the variance.
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outphase
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
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Playing tight in a loose table is a bad idea... by tight i mean folding your marginal drawing hands. drawing hands are paydirt in a loose table.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
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gobbledygeek
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
It is very difficult for us, without watching the table, to tell you that youre playing bad, or running bad, or what. From the hands you posted on here, you look to be playing fine.
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One of the big disadvantages for me playing at the casino is that I'm not able to remember my hand histories or keep track of stats (like I've noticed others here are able to do for online). Therefore, it's even really difficult for me to review my own hands afterwards and try to figure out what went wrong. I think the hands I remember the best are the ones where I sorta felt good about my play but ended up losing anyways. But I know there's gotta be lottsa little hands where I've played not so good and pissed away money here and there, those hands would be nice to remember.
Do other casino players somehow track their hand histories, and if so, how?
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thenonsequitur
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
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I don't play B&M games much, but there are no rules agianst bringing a pen and notepad, are there? You can probably just take notes right after the hand plays out.
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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But I would think that if I played looser the volatility would be quite high (big losses / wins), I'm not sure I could handle the variance.
i want to make a distinction here - I'm not talking about playing 7,5 suited under the gun. What I mean is you have to figure out what the table is playing like. If there are a bunch of maniacs you have to tighten up a bit and play better cards in better spots (be willing to call more against maniacs though with things like mid. pair etc, if you can get heads up) - But what I found at most 2/4 tables is a bunch of players who want to see every flop - calling stations - to beat them you have to show down a winner - but Big Pairs don't win big pots in low limit hold em - big drawing hands win pots - when it's 1 small bet to see a flop, see it with hands that can hit big - 8,10s, pocket pairs (little ones are great when you hit a set) all the big cards like K,Js, K,Q etc - BUT, don't play 8,10s and call down when you hit an 8 - KNOW what you are looking to hit...With a drawing hand you want to catch the draw, not a pair - Overcards will hunt you down, etc - So when you don't flop big, fold it - If you have a bit of the flop and it costs you 1 small bet, see the turn - Get away from the hands though when you don't have much - Don't go into loose chasing mode where your calling a preflop raiser with mid pair - look for a big flop and then make them pay -
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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i broke even at 2/4 lhe online and only moved up due to bonus whoring. My winrates at 1/2 3/6 however are good and every time i sit at 2/4 i find more donks than at any other game. Maybe thats just me...
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I have a ridiculously easy time at 2/4, i don't have stats though. I'm not even good at limit.
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