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Chopper
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04-16-2009, 04:50 PM
Post subject: stupid AK..
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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38/8 and no other history on villain. i have him on whiffed overs, which i beat, and overpairs. since i dont have a great idea as to where i stand, and figure to call a river bet from him, is the donk/fold a decent idea? it only costs one bet and may pull AQ/KQ type hands in when they would have checked behind. and, anything that raises, obv has me beat. the problem is: it may bump out QJ or something that may have 3barreled and tightens what calls me in the first place. i have myself ahead 65/35ish until the river, where i fall behind his range. i dont consider the 6 pairing a scare card here....irrelevant to anyone with a brain. i dont know why i didnt cap pre, either. but, i think thats a small issue at best.
PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Preflop: Hero is SB with A , K
4 folds, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls
Flop: (6 SB) 8, 9 , 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls
Turn: (4 BB) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls
River: (6 BB) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero folds
Total pot: $8 (8 BB) | Rake: $0.35
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Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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Sprayed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: GO BUCKS!
Posts: 3,057
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Is it not standard to cap preflop with AK?
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OneEyeLefty
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In the batter's box. Already 0-1 count....
Posts: 125
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sprayed
Is it not standard to cap preflop with AK?
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Agreed, should we not have capped this pre-flop? I have to call the raise on the river. No doubt, I am beat. However, for 1 bet I get the info that may help me later. 3 betting isn't on option of course.
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Careful what you wish for.....you just may get it!
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sprayed
Is it not standard to cap preflop with AK?
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it is, and i mentioned that i dont know why i didnt indicating that i usually do. however, a lot of charts i've seen will tell you to 3bet AKo and cap AKs. at micro levels, and especially 6max, i think capping is still virtually mandatory every time you see it. the only thing i can think of as to why i didnt was i dont like taking AK into a multiway pot oop to a cap.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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c/c the river.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sprayed
Is it not standard to cap preflop with AK?
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It is standard but definitely not mandatory. If we're going to be HU and OOP with it I don't mind just calling the pf 3bet. Gives us the chance to c/r the turn or river if an A or K comes. Otherwise we're c/c'ing it down.
There's some situations where you can value bet A high on the river but this doesn't really look like one of them. The biggest problem is that you're out of the lead the whole time then suddenly donk when the 6 pairs on the river - it just looks like such b.s. If you want to try to get value, I think you're better off c/c'ing the river because most people will bet the river with a lot more worse hands than they'll call with.
Another problem is your bet looks suspicious so he might actually raise you with the same or a worse hand. Most of the time though if you call the raise you'll be behind. It's lose-lose. So don't bet out because it puts you in a bad place imo.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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i also like to c/c these spots, and that played into my decision to donk this one for sure.
usually, with marginal stuff, i will lead, lead, c/c. and, i dont have the lead here, but if i feel worthy of calling a turn, i rarely fold the river. so, i tend to lead, lead/call, c/c. or check, lead/call, c/c. it doesnt really matter, but here i felt i was falling into a pattern too often of calling a checking to induce (in my own head of course) and decided this would change things up and possibly catch him by surprise.
again, i also thought i had some value in leading, as mentioned, and knew i was done if i got raised.
as a 5-10% of the time "play," is it still bad? or, to change it up, is it acceptable?
of course, in forums, we never see much of what a guy actually does. so, we tend to give the +EV, or textbook, advice. however, we all deviate from the textbook play once in awhile for one reason or another. i dont think its awful to deviate slightly if we have solid thinking behind it. i guess i am asking: if this is a rare play, to change up our line a little, does it become more acceptable since it doesnt really cost us more when we are wrong?
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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I understand what you're saying, OTOH Bryce says balancing is really only useful against people you play against a lot and who are actually paying fairly close attention to how you play.
Here you have no history with villian so Bryce would say no reason to balance your play. You've decided you're willing to put in one BB on the river, but not two. But since you don't know villian, it's hard to know what a river raise from him means. Does it mean he has AJ and is saying 'nfw you have a six buddy' or does it mean he has TT+? We'll never know.
There's two reasons why c/c is better than b/f. First, you don't know villian well enough to know you are not ahead at least 1/9 times if he raises. In other words, folding to his raise could be a mistake and calling his raise could also be a mistake. Either way you've put yourself in a position where you can make a mistake because you can't be sure what his raise means. Sure it means you are probably beat but are you beat 8/9 times? Hard to say.
Second, most players will bluff with more hands than they'll call a bet with on the river, meaning if you are ahead you lose value by betting.
Being unpredictable and good at the same time is hard to do. You need to recognize those situations where either of two actions is approximately equal in terms of EV and that's hard. So if the choice is between being predictably good and being unpredictably bad then being predictably good is much better. There's plenty of people being unpredictably bad already and losing because of it - not something to aim for. If you want to set up a tricky image then save it for those opponents who think and who you play a lot of hands against like Bryce says.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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BennyLaRue
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 646
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Good analysis, DD. As well, even if you lose, the c/c line will result in providing you with some pretty cheap information, which b/f doesn't offer.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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ok....gotcha guys. and, thanks.
the only other thing i will add is that i wasnt concerned with this specific villain watching me. i know i had no history with him. but, there were some regs at the table i had built a history with and THEY may be watching what i do. probably not, but that was the way i talked myself into "changing it up."
but, then again, 100 hands on a guy doesnt amount to a "history," either...lol.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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javierloco09
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I too lost to AK. and gives one courage
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I try to play aggressive with these cards but I have also lost
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you were in good hands Preflop but the flop, turn and river did not help much
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thebest22
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 13
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by OneEyeLefty
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sprayed
Is it not standard to cap preflop with AK?
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Agreed, should we not have capped this pre-flop? I have to call the raise on the river. No doubt, I am beat. However, for 1 bet I get the info that may help me later. 3 betting isn't on option of course. |
i hate people who think ace king is a god hand on poker sites ..and i hate when people cant fold it so sick they call ever bet to the river
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AA is stupid but never go all in before the flop is a ruin which has 2.5 wins ladder! noooo! AK is not too bad if it is of the same color
buscar
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