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koolmoe
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08-09-2004, 05:43 PM
Post subject: strange play at the $5/$10 tables
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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I have recently been trying to make the jump to $5/$10 limit, and struggled a little at first. I dropped about 50 BB and was finding the going quite difficult. I just wrote it off to stronger play at that level.
Recently, I played a couple of hands that left me wondering if the play really is that strong.
The first: dealt T2o in the BB. Two limpers (MP and LP) and me to the flop. Flop comes 226. I check, MP bets, LP calls, I calls. Turn is a J. I check, MP bets, LP folds, I raise, MP reraises, I call. River is a T. I check, MP bets, I raise, MP calls.
I show, he mucks and says "nice river." Hand history shows that he held 77. WTF was so nice about the river?
Next: I'm dealt :Ac: :Tc: in MP. I raise, the BB (who started the hand with with a $28 stack!) calls. Flop is    . He checks, I take a stab at the pot, he raises me, and I call. Turn is the :Ts:. He puts his last $8 in the pot and I call. River is a blank.
He turns over :Js:  and says "Thanks for calling with nothing." It was a loose call that I might not have made against a lot of players, but his small stack made me respect him less. I was tempted to thank him for calling my preflop raise with J7o, but refrained.
Anybody else seeing this kind of stuff at $5/$10 tables?
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Fnord
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08-09-2004, 06:05 PM
Post subject: Re: strange play at the $5/$10 tables
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#2 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by koolmoe
Anybody else seeing this kind of stuff at $5/$10 tables?
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Where? What day of the week? What time of the day?
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Humphrind
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,887
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I haven't spent that much time in the higher limit games, but I have noticed that people are a lot more snippy about losing.
On the first hand, I can see him not seeing the 2 and assuming you just got lucky to catch on the river to make Ts over 2s. He didn't look very hard and it's his fault not to be scared of the pair on the board. If I see a pair of 2s -5s on the board I look at the SB / BB. If anyone caught his trips, it's probably the one who saw the flop cheap / free. You disguised it by checking on the flop. He fell for it. Good job.
The second hand it was obvious, he said, "I hate you cause you took the last of my money."
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I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
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Fnord
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Humphrind
You disguised it by checking on the flop. He fell for it. Good job.
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Don't play limit much, eh?
The "wait for the turn to raise" screams monster. 3-betting with 7s was aggressive, not taking the free showdown he bought on the turn was just plain stupid. Although, my line here is to cap the turn and bet the river. With a ten on the river, I re-raise. If the river was blank I would just call a raise.
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koolmoe
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08-09-2004, 06:27 PM
Post subject: Re: strange play at the $5/$10 tables
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#5 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by koolmoe
Anybody else seeing this kind of stuff at $5/$10 tables?
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Where? What day of the week? What time of the day? |
Was this morning at about 6 ET. Surprising since mornings are not usually that fishy.
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Fnord
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08-09-2004, 06:30 PM
Post subject: Re: strange play at the $5/$10 tables
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#6 (permalink)
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by koolmoe
Was this morning at about 6 ET. Surprising since mornings are not usually that fishy.
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Monday morning, eh? Wow. However later in the week mornings can have some pretty good fishing.
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Humphrind
You disguised it by checking on the flop. He fell for it. Good job.
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Don't play limit much, eh?
The "wait for the turn to raise" screams monster. 3-betting with 7s was aggressive, not taking the free showdown he bought on the turn was just plain stupid. Although, my line here is to cap the turn and bet the river. With a ten on the river, I re-raise. If the river was blank I would just call a raise. |
I check-raised the turn in an effort to get the LP player to call one bet, even though I knew it would reveal my hand. Normally I wouldn't offer the free showdown. Your line is better for several reasons, and I'm not sure why I played it the way I did.
Perhaps it was because my read on this guy was "poker expert," and I don't mean that in a flattering way. He was overly aggressive and thought he was hot stuff (openly chatting with another player about the play of the weaker seats at the table).
When he reraised on the turn, I figured him to be testing me for weakness, and I decided to oblige him, trying to induce a bluff on the river. When he flipped over sevens, I was shocked that he decided to call my raise on the river. His bet was clearly intended to get a better hand to fold; not sure why he called the raise, as I hadn't shown down anything to let him think I might be bluffing.
Betting on the river was bad, and calling my river raise was worse. What I don't get was the "nice river" comment, unless he was trying to convince the table that I had sucked out on him.
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{This post has been removed}
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Fnord
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by koolmoe
Betting on the river was bad, and calling my river raise was worse.
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Betting that river is the worse mistake as he's very rarely going to get a worse hand to call or a better hand to fold and it puts him in a position where he's either got to call or fold to a raise. Calling the raise is less than a 1BB mistake, since his hand *might* be good 1 time in 100 winning the pot. I try not to fret over mistakes that cost less than 1BB.
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Fnord
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
WHY WHY WHYYYYY
do people still play limit poker
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I got 1.2k reasons over 8k hands and counting...
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strangebird
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sizzler
Posts: 553
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You need to broaden your horizon. I like pizza, but i cant eat it every night.
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Some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants won't help.
-- Calvin and Hobbes
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{This post has been removed}
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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o Full table Limit ring is my best game.
o My shorthanded game is weak, but I keep working at it
o NL ring is boring when played correctly. Full ring will put you to sleep.
o The *amazing* Party full NL ring games are no longer so amazing
o Tourney poker is as much about people, position and stack sizes as it is about cards and there is little play left after the flop (if you don't pot commit pre-flop.)
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Play limit poker live and you'll see the appeal, ripp. The problem online is that the level of play increases more rapidly with the limit. I've played $6/$12 live that was as soft as $1/$2 or lower online. It's harder to find no limit live.
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by koolmoe
Betting on the river was bad, and calling my river raise was worse.
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Betting that river is the worse mistake as he's very rarely going to get a worse hand to call or a better hand to fold and it puts him in a position where he's either got to call or fold to a raise. Calling the raise is less than a 1BB mistake, since his hand *might* be good 1 time in 100 winning the pot. I try not to fret over mistakes that cost less than 1BB. |
I see your point. Thanks for the analysis, Fnord.
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
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You gotta play to your strengths (or everybody else's weakness). Fnord has pretty much tried everything, and if Limit is where the most money is, that's where he's gotta stay.
I'd like to try playing limit someday..
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Aceofone
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 497
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheNatural
You gotta play to your strengths (or everybody else's weakness). Fnord has pretty much tried everything, and if Limit is where the most money is, that's where he's gotta stay.
I'd like to try playing limit someday..
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Thats the right idea, find your niche and bring out the depth charges, its fishin time.
I prefer no limit online because I can post and fold for 1 1/2 hours, get the nuts and sucker somebody in for 40-60$, that beats the hell out of slingin burgers for 8$ an hour.
Limit live is a lot more fun, but online I like to discourage chasers, or at least punish them for their ignorance.
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Toasty
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: England UK
Posts: 1,522
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I think the play deff changes at this level i regularly see posts on 2+2 saying stuff like "Value bet this river" to find they hold 77 with overcards out.
You deff played the hand weird, when he raised the turn he probably planned to fold to a re-raise since you called he ruled out the trips possibility.
Was this full or SH ? The 5/10 full seem pretty straightforward, the shorthanded games are softer but higher variance.
Keep up the good work Moe I'll be back to 5/10 in a month or two 
O and btw the egos at the mid limits are crazy I've had a few people lose to me on 6max and dump down $10,000 to prove how great they are. I think its worse at the 6max tables as there are many successful full players who can't beat it and get frustrated to lose to what they consider inferior players.
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Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Toasty
I think the play deff changes at this level i regularly see posts on 2+2 saying stuff like "Value bet this river" to find they hold 77 with overcards out.
You deff played the hand weird, when he raised the turn he probably planned to fold to a re-raise since you called he ruled out the trips possibility.
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That was definitely my read. Now that I look at it, my play is quite bad unless I can count on him to bet the river most of the time. I gave him a free river card, a chance at a free showdown, and reverse implied odds of three bets. Maybe that's what he meant by "nice river" - he didn't catch a 7 with the free card I offered.
If I cap the turn and bet the river, I probably win the same two bets I won by being "tricky" unless he folds, which would be good information to have anyway.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Toasty
Was this full or SH ? The 5/10 full seem pretty straightforward, the shorthanded games are softer but higher variance.
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It was a full table at pokerroom.com
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Toasty
Keep up the good work Moe I'll be back to 5/10 in a month or two
O and btw the egos at the mid limits are crazy I've had a few people lose to me on 6max and dump down $10,000 to prove how great they are. I think its worse at the 6max tables as there are many successful full players who can't beat it and get frustrated to lose to what they consider inferior players. |
Yeah, the egos are definitely on display at 5/10. I like it though, because it gives you an idea who you have implied tilt odds against.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Toasty
I think the play deff changes at this level i regularly see posts on 2+2 saying stuff like "Value bet this river" to find they hold 77 with overcards out.
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Betting marginal hands on the river is something you do to weak players that will call you down with any pair and won't raise you often enough with stronger holdings. Against tougher oposition (Koolmoe) it's a no-no.
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