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chardrian
Old 03-30-2006, 07:48 PM     Post subject: Standard? #1 (permalink)  
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My opp's only tool is to be overly aggressive early and OOP.

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Preflop: Hero is Button with T, Q.
1 fold, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 2, 3, 8 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.50 BB) A (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB
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midas06
Old 03-30-2006, 08:23 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Did you have a read that if you tried to raise the flop for the free card he'd 3-bet you?

And a read that he'd give you the free card on 4th street without a made hand?
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chardrian
Old 03-30-2006, 08:29 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I had a read that he likes to bet Ax up the wazoo early.

I figured I had 7 outs (6 for the Ts and Qs, plus a couple for the runner runner str8 or flush possibilities, minus one in case my outs were counterfeited). So I was willing to call and see a turn and go from there.
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midas06
Old 03-30-2006, 08:48 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Could you have taken it down for a single bet on the turn?
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chardrian
Old 03-30-2006, 08:52 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Doubt it - this is the same guy who recently went wild with A hi and lost at a showdown to an A hi with a better kicker. If he has the A, which I suspect I don't see a fold from him here with that gutshot now added to the mix. If he has a weak pp, there is no way he is folding, and even if he has two over cards, I think he might chase it down.
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midas06
Old 03-30-2006, 08:56 PM #6 (permalink)  
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K I really like this hand then
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Demiparadigm
Old 03-30-2006, 10:43 PM #7 (permalink)  
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What would possibly make you think that QTo is worth 6 outs against a 3 bet?
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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chardrian
Old 03-30-2006, 10:50 PM #8 (permalink)  
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the fact that my opp is overly aggro at a 4 person table makes me think my Ten and Q are still probably good if they hit.

What makes you so positive I didn't have 6 outs?

How many outs would you give yourself there?

And I'm not trying to puff out my chest here and say "cuz I'm right and you're wrong". I think you are probably right demi - just want a little more reasoning please.
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Demiparadigm
Old 03-30-2006, 11:40 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chardrian
the fact that my opp is overly aggro at a 4 person table makes me think my Ten and Q are still probably good if they hit.

What makes you so positive I didn't have 6 outs?

How many outs would you give yourself there?

And I'm not trying to puff out my chest here and say "cuz I'm right and you're wrong". I think you are probably right demi - just want a little more reasoning please.
You have to put your opponent on a range to 3 bet.

Then determine, based on the flop, what the probability of winning is. If you like to think of "outs" I typically think of overcards as similar to a 4 out draw. It is much more complicated than that, though. For example, JQ could be a better overcard draw than AT, since more 3 betting hands contain an A than a J or Q.

If we look at pokerstove and give your opponent a wide range we get this:

146,520 games 0.110 secs 1,332,000 games/sec

Board: 2d 8d 3s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 19.8925 % 19.78% 00.11% { QdTc }
Hand 2: 80.1075 % 80.00% 00.11% { 66+, A8s+, KJs+, QJs, ATo+, KJo+, QJo }

But also understand, your effective odds are not good. Against a very strong hand, you will be forced to pay the most, and will not usually get a lot if you are ahead.
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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pokerfanatic
Old 03-31-2006, 12:09 AM #10 (permalink)  
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umm i don't know if i like that play or not i'm tempted to bet/call the turn on my draw, what does SB 3 bet then donk the flop then all a sudden check the turn with is he trying to c/r a big street and playing a really stupid line because on A-Q FD or a made flush all call or 3 bet...

to me i think your raise on the river was for value, but i'm not sure if i like the turn actions or not depends on my reads i guess...

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chardrian
Old 03-31-2006, 03:43 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Sorry - didn't post here, cuz I wasn't sure it was a so-called "advanced play."

I am definitely making money playing Limit, but still feel like I am not in any of your guys leagues especially since I only play on Dise and don't use PT.

My raise on the river was definitely for value.

My check on the turn was simply to save a bet against a maniac that hardly ever folds.

Demi - your range was waaaaaaaaay to tight for him.

I'm thinking this is a better range:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 27.3591 % 26.03% 01.33% { QdTc }
Hand 2: 72.6409 % 71.31% 01.33% { 22+, A2s+, K8s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T8s+, 98s, 87s, 76s, A2o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

Does that range make my play better or worse?
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euphoricism
Old 04-03-2006, 02:03 PM #12 (permalink)  
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I think you played it fine. I wouldnt have faulted you for a flop raise trying for a free card, but with an over aggressive opponent who is defending his blind he might threebet you. The river raise is good. Youve got the.. uh.. third nuts, but shouldnt really worry about him having 34s, a K is a possibility but its one card in the deck, definitely a value raise.

But if he bets the turn, watchagonnado?
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chardrian
Old 04-03-2006, 06:29 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
But if he bets the turn, watchagonnado?
Eek - depends on how I am feeling. In this case either fold or call - against the right opp I may occassionally try a raise here. A fold is probably the best play, but I think against a maniac like this I probably call that more often than not (especially when I have just been oofed - I need to work on that).
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