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euphoricism
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07-05-2005, 06:54 PM
Post subject: SSH starting hands for the limit player
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Maybe its just me, but SSH's section on 'starting hands' seems absolutely nutso to me. I was starting to create an excel spreadsheet with its starting hands, hoping it would help me be a bit better preflop -- but looking through them again, they seem.. well.. suicidal.
Limp Axs from MP? And fold it to an LP raise behind you?
Limp 54s from LP?
It would seem that the whole basis here is 'get in cheap, get out cheap', but I'm seeing these hands as a recipe for bleeding chips away. Anyone else thought more about this?
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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Been a while since I read SSH, but I'm thinking you are looking at the wrong guide. You want to be looking at the Tight table guide unless you are at an absolutely terrible table. The suited stuff they tell you to play at loose tables is only in there because you are getting such good odds if there are 6+ people in to see a flop. Also, I don't remember reading anywhere that you should limp and then fold to a raise(I thought they said specifically not to do that).
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nehmer
Been a while since I read SSH, but I'm thinking you are looking at the wrong guide. You want to be looking at the Tight table guide almost never unless you are at an absolutely terrible table. |
FYP
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TylerK
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nehmer
Been a while since I read SSH, but I'm thinking you are looking at the wrong guide. You want to be looking at the Tight table guide almost never unless you are at an absolutely terrible table. |
FYP |
What is FYP?
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nehmer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TylerK
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nehmer
Been a while since I read SSH, but I'm thinking you are looking at the wrong guide. You want to be looking at the Tight table guide almost never unless you are at an absolutely terrible table. |
FYP |
What is FYP? |
Fixed your post 
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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For most internet games, the tight table guide is where you should start. As long as the table see flop% is less than about 40%.
In B$M use the loose table guide.
The most important thing is to work on your post flop skills, then fix your preflop leaks.... especially if you not playing "enough" hands, VERY small leak.
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To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TylerK
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nehmer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TylerK
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nehmer
Been a while since I read SSH, but I'm thinking you are looking at the wrong guide. You want to be looking at the Tight table guide almost never unless you are at an absolutely terrible table. |
FYP |
What is FYP? |
Fixed your post |
I think I'm missing something here. Why would you want to use the tight guide at a bad table with lots of people probably seeing the flop and the loose guide at a good table with fewer people seeing the flop?
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nehmer
I think I'm missing something here. Why would you want to use the tight guide at a bad table with lots of people probably seeing the flop and the loose guide at a good table with fewer people seeing the flop?
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I think we're using different definitions of "bad table" and "good table." 
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TylerK
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nehmer
I think I'm missing something here. Why would you want to use the tight guide at a bad table with lots of people probably seeing the flop and the loose guide at a good table with fewer people seeing the flop?
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I think we're using different definitions of "bad table" and "good table." |
Ohhhh....It makes sense now, I'm an idiot sometimes. I was very confused for a little bit there 
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Alright. Im looking at the 'tight table' and it seems that I wouldn't even play some of the stuff it mentions. Maybe thats a little bit of my problem, I'm quitting early on hands that have value.
Im going to finish turning it into a chart form
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StinkyBeaver
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 275
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you should make a search on 2+2 this chart is already made and it is very good also. Covers which hands to coldcall with, and which hands that needs so many limpers and the like. I'm not sure but try the micro forum faq.
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A'aag
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loyal son of Rochester
Posts: 172
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I just glanced it over and it does seem pretty loose- I think it's easy to take it too literally. You mention 54s in LP, and that's definitely situational- I play this hand in LP, but nowhere near each time I have it. I definitely want some limpers, and I'm normally not going to try to steal with it. I could see someone reading this thing and open limping 22 in MP1- obviously that's bad (well unless you have a really bad...wait good...um really loose passive table ). I guess what I'm saying is I look at it as a rough outline of what hands are playable in general in a certain position, but there is more to it than that. You have to evaluate the situation. Another example is he advocates cold calling in EP with AJs. I would probably never do this. If I'm playing (read dependent) I'm 3-betting. So I think a lot of this is situational, and a lot depends on your style.
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Zinnsoldaten
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 130
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As StinkyBeaver (yummy) states, the SSH-charts doesn't account for how many players already have entered the pot. You don't really want to call with 54s versus one opponent f x.
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What Shadows We Are, And What Shadows We Pursue
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Ok good, I'm not the only one who finds that section lacking.
Thats all I wanted to know. As stinkybeaver posted (thats hilarious, by the way) the post on 2+2 is really quite good.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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After so many hands you wont even use a chart.
What I did for my first 10k hands or so was memorize SSH's starting guide perfectly and only play by those standards. You need the discipline to do this up front but once you get them down then adjusting your own hand selection will be easier given table and player conditions.
Also, its WHEN you break the rules that will earn you the most money.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Also, its WHEN you break the rules that will earn you the most money.
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Better yet, know WHY the pre-flop charts are the way they are. Then learn hand values plus situational pre-flop poker. Particularly in tighter games.
Consider that if a 50/15 idiot limps I'm raising a wider range because I *know* he's got junk (or slow playing AA/KK/AK.) If TAggy open raises from the CO, I'm 3-betting a wider range from the button because I *know* his opening range from there includes a lot of weak hands.
Finally, consider that TABLE and SEAT SELCTION is really what sets many of these super-profitable expert plays up.
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