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silverfist
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12-29-2005, 03:34 AM
Post subject: SSH starting chart
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 341
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I've lost my copy of SSH. I think I left it on the subway. I've got it pretty much memorised, but there's a few little details I can't remember (raise with JK on the button?, ex.). Does anyone know where it is posted online? If you don't, would someone please reproduce it for me, for the tight tables, at least? I've ordered a new one, but it won't arrive for a while.
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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Did you miss the part in SSH where is pretty much says that using a starting hand chart is stupid?
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To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Its around 2+2 ::shudder:: search for it.
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silverfist
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 341
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
Did you miss the part in SSH where is pretty much says that using a starting hand chart is stupid? |
Yes.
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
Its around 2+2 ::shudder:: search for it.
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Thank you. I'll have a look.
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newb1
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3
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At lower limits, it's fine to use a chart *if* you're learning why it's telling you to do things.
Later on, once you've got hands under your belt, you should be able to ditch the chart and adjust your hands to whatever table your playing on.
The money is made in poker after the flop, read the hand histories here and try to figure out the reasoning behind the decisions.
Read Fnord's stickies but remember that his game is very advanced so don't try to put all of his plays into practice until you're ready for the post-flop game.
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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SSH pg. 77:
In general, do not spend too much time contemplating specific preflop plays. If you have to think about it too long, the options probably run close in value. Instead use that time to improve your postflop play.
Ed Miller has mentioned on 2p2 that he wishes he could just tear that part out of his book.
Good luck with your search.
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To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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I've always advocated playing by the book until you learn why you're doing it. It at least gives you a better idea of what good hands are to play and goes into position.
Also, its a lot less confusing than HEPFAP's "group" hands that annoy the crap out of me.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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I don't mind the newbies using the charts. I used em. I used remmy.net's for a while. But we all know that if the player doesn't know the "why" of the charts, he'll be in some trouble down the road. The sooner the player gets away from the charts, the better imho.
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Miller also stated in SSH that the charts were adjusted some to make them simpler and easier to remember. I still play primarily by the chart, but I make slight adjustments for the table I am at, and also use more of a sliding chart ... In EP3 I'll add a couple hands from the MP chart, and in HJ I'll add some of the late position hands.
Another adjustment which I don't remember Miller mentioning is to tighten up on the more speculative hands in middle and late position when there are an unusually small amount of limpers that hand. For example, If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66 and 76s.
I also have a question ... how much should I loosen up my calling and raising standards at a table where many people will 3-bet and cap preflop just because they feel like it? I've seen a lot of people 3-bet any pocket pair, and cap with any old crap.
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Tripps7
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 130
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xanadu
Another adjustment which I don't remember Miller mentioning is to tighten up on the more speculative hands in middle and late position when there are an unusually small amount of limpers that hand. For example, If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66 and 76s.
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I too throw away alot of the marginal hands in mid to late position when there's only 1 or 2 limpers. Especially if I have someone that raises a lot preflop to my left. Then I am stuck with 2 bets in a 2-3 way point with a VERY speculative hand.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66
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You're losing value by not playing pocket pairs in these pots. Raise them bad boys to isolate the limper, you'll be surprised at how many pots you'll win unimproved and even bigger pots when you do hit a set as your hand is mighty concealed.
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outphase
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66
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You're losing value by not playing pocket pairs in these pots. Raise them bad boys to isolate the limper, you'll be surprised at how many pots you'll win unimproved and even bigger pots when you do hit a set as your hand is mighty concealed. |
Sometimes it's also good to limp along if your table is guaranteed to pay off if you hit your set.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by outphase
Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66
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You're losing value by not playing pocket pairs in these pots. Raise them bad boys to isolate the limper, you'll be surprised at how many pots you'll win unimproved and even bigger pots when you do hit a set as your hand is mighty concealed. |
Sometimes it's also good to limp along if your table is guaranteed to pay off if you hit your set. |
usually, with 1 limper, this is not the best. Raise to get the blinds out and you're more than a 50% favorite here HU. With another person in the pot your hand plays much differently and you are stuck folding to a donk bet on the flop than continuing on most boards..
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More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by outphase
Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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If I'm in the CO and there has only been 1 limper, I'm not going to play hands like 66
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You're losing value by not playing pocket pairs in these pots. Raise them bad boys to isolate the limper, you'll be surprised at how many pots you'll win unimproved and even bigger pots when you do hit a set as your hand is mighty concealed. |
Sometimes it's also good to limp along if your table is guaranteed to pay off if you hit your set. |
usually, with 1 limper, this is not the best. Raise to get the blinds out and you're more than a 50% favorite here HU. With another person in the pot your hand plays much differently and you are stuck folding to a donk bet on the flop than continuing on most boards.. |
Well, it depends. Against a tighter player a flop continuation bet can often take it.
btw I have a table with the chart on my computer if you want it
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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I agree with the raise for 66 in the CO at the right table, but at most tables I play at, it will usually be a 4 way pot ... the BB will almost always call, and typically either the Button or SB will cold call, leaving a bad situation for 66 whether you raise or not. This is with a very loose table that just happens to have only one limper for this hand. And I think the 66 is even worse off because with only 1 limper at a normally very loose table, there are a lot of high cards in the deck for the remaining 3 to act to hold and to flop.
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