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Chopper

10-26-2008, 09:42 PM Post subject: spot to raise?

#1 (permalink)

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is this a spot to raise and possibly spook out another A2 that may fear itself being quartered? of course, that wont get folded at 2/4c, but i was speaking from more of a fundamental angle...

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Omaha/8 (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A

, K

, 8

, 2

.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) J

, 6

, 4

(6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (3 BB) 6

(6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks.

River: (3 BB) 7

(6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 6 BB

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

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bigspenda73

10-26-2008, 11:38 PM

#2 (permalink)

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what's with the passive PF and flop play?

Chopper

10-27-2008, 01:49 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Location: St. Louis, MO

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i read, tonight, that i should be raising a lot of A2XX hands, especially if the A is suited. so, that should change.

but, the flop i figured was "ok," not great. so, why build a pot when i have crap for a hi and no protection for a lo...not to mention another A2 could be out.

i suppose that when drawing to a nut lo, we should be betting until told otherwise? its just that i dont see a lot of raises down here, and i suppose thats more fuel for betting?

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Fnord

10-27-2008, 01:52 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

i read, tonight, that i should be raising a lot of A2XX hands, especially if the A is suited. so, that should change.

Balance your range better than that.

For starters, a strong high hand like KKQT is also a great hand to raise with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Chopper

10-27-2008, 02:50 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

i read, tonight, that i should be raising a lot of A2XX hands, especially if the A is suited. so, that should change.

Balance your range better than that.

For starters, a strong high hand like KKQT is also a great hand to raise with.

as always, thank you, fnord. but, one step at a time. i barely have the basics of O8....obvious from my past couple posts. and, i plan on raising more than just the A2XX type stuff.

however, do i really need to worry about balance at 2/4c? i know its just a good habit to get into, but i doubt anyone assesses ranges/holdings down here until they look at the river card.

and, also from what i've recently read, should we be raising hi only hands in no fold em games like these? i would think they thin out a field nicely, and that stands to logic with me, but when no one folds pre and i am praying for half the pot most times....it just seems like something that should wait for another level or two higher?

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

10-27-2008, 10:37 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Posts: n/a

I've never played this game. But I'm betting the flop because I want non-nut low draws to draw along with me. Imagine if three people call and like two of them have worse low draws. If we hit, the high player and you can trap them into calling two bets sometimes.

TLR

10-27-2008, 01:33 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Ignoring for a second the fact that it is micro-limits
Preflop you have a good hand, you have A2s and Kxs, the 8 is a bad card in this game but may back you into a low, usually I would raise with it preflop but with so many limpers I can see a case of calling.
I would check the flop with so many people in the pot and a draw to half the pot with no protection.
I think calling and raising the river is pretty close in value

Chopper

10-27-2008, 02:15 PM

#8 (permalink)

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say you have :Ah: :Ks:

. now i assume you are raising preflop with the limpers?

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

TLR

10-27-2008, 03:49 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

say you have :Ah: :Ks:

. now i assume you are raising preflop with the limpers?

yes

Chopper

10-27-2008, 05:30 PM

#10 (permalink)

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sorry to nit pick, but...

:Ah: :Kc:

??

i'm sure the EV is not that much different with such a big pot going already.

how bout...

:Ah:

:Kc: ??

anal on the preflop stuff, i know, but its hard to find a lot of specific stuff to read on it. and, from what i understand, preflop at lower stakes is almost enough to win on its own. so, i figure we start there and work our way post flop once we arent playing ...

:Th: :Ac: anymore.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

TLR

10-27-2008, 06:38 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Posts: 5,007

I think I raise both, however I dont like the fact that hand 2 has 2 hearts

Try to pick up ray zee's book on o8

Chopper

10-27-2008, 07:03 PM

#12 (permalink)

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i got it, but it doesnt say much, imo, about what to raise pre with in such small stakes games. however, i've only read through it twice, too. usually, it takes more for me.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

drmcboy

10-28-2008, 06:51 PM

#13 (permalink)

DrButtInski
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Posts: 9,601

IIRC he mostly says that raising pre increases your volatility a lot and your profits a little.

Chopper

10-28-2008, 07:14 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2005

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Posts: 4,255

thats where i am having the trouble.

volatility v profit. thinning v pot building.

the best so far for me was reading SS2's section. ray zee is good and all, but it was easier for me to understand SS2. i think i've gone from whale to tuna fish. if i can get to mullet, i'll be happy.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

DoanDiggy

11-25-2008, 03:31 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Join Date: Oct 2008

Posts: 536

I agree with checking the flop and turn in a massively-multiway pot. If there are 2 or 3 players in the hand, I might bet the flop (in position) or the turn in hopes of taking the pot down right there, while also allowing us to build for the nut low if we do get called and it does hit.

The river is kind of an interesting spot. It looks to me like UTG+1 is possibly on high, and who knows what MP1 is on? I have been able to run up the river a few times when I hold the nut low or nut high and I'm working with the player who has the opposite. In this case, I like trying to cap the river in hopes of seeing either UTG+1 or MP1 turn over an A3 or 23 or low flush or J7 or 77 or "what is this game again?", so I really like a raise.

I also have a tough time knowing when to raise preflop. With so many people limping in and chasing postflop while they're actually drawing nearly dead, I mostly leave my action for after I've seen a few cards. After reading this post, though, I'm going to make an effort to start raising a little bit with the types of hands that are likely to flop nicely.

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