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littleogre
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12-08-2007, 10:46 AM
Post subject: something i read in a poker book?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Can't remember the name but it is the one by the limit expert stoxpoker. I think that is how you spell his name. Anyway the topic is on river bluffing. He says that if you flop a draw and you bet the flop and turn and the villan does not fold you should always bet a bricked river. His reasoning is that you only need the villan to fold like 1 in every 7 times to show a profiit. Thats true but i am not so sure that people that call on the flop and turn actually fold the river that often.
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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It's called "Winning In Tough Hold'em Games"... and he is talking about games where opponents will not call down button pair on a regaler basis, he talks about opponents that tend to take a lot of draws to the river like bottom pair trying to hit 2p and if you bet they probably fold...
be very careful when applying theory to small stakes some of it might cost you more money then it will gain because of the tendencies of your opponents...
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfanatic
It's called "Winning In Tough Hold'em Games"... and he is talking about games where opponents will not call down button pair on a regaler basis, he talks about opponents that tend to take a lot of draws to the river like bottom pair trying to hit 2p and if you bet they probably fold...
be very careful when applying theory to small stakes some of it might cost you more money then it will gain because of the tendencies of your opponents...
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Bottom pair? I find nearly impossible to get people off Ace high
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Hermann the Lombard
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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Good! You can value-bet the hell out of them. Just the kind of foe you want.
(Now if I can practice what I preach...)
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Oh, no! Not another learning experience!
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hermann the Lombard
Good! You can value-bet the hell out of them. Just the kind of foe you want.
(Now if I can practice what I preach...)
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The problem is a lot of them will also call you down with strong hands so i routinely find myself in the following situation. I 'll bet any pair on every street and villan calls down with tptk. Soyou basically never know what you are beting into.
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snowboard_31
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 206
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value betting any pair is pretty extreme, i wouldnt advise it. The more u play with the same donks the better, use the notes to figure out their betting patterns and take their money.
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1. Get a seat to their right
2. Steal blinds at will
3. ...
4. Profit
"It should be a crime to not bet if someone has checked to you twice."
-soupie
"If you can pinpoint a player's range, you can own his soul."
-Bond18
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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my point was... it might be optimal to fire a 3rd barrel a decent amount if you have some fold equity but he is talking about "tough games"... and i'm sorry 10/20 and down don't really fit that bill if you use good seat selection... well 5/10 and 10/20 might at times but given that i'd venture to say no one here is playing above that you might tread lightly when appalling things liek that...
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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xtreem5
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Virginia - it's for lovers!
Posts: 11
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Check the river. If they bet into you use your notes on that player when deciding to call. In my experience it doesn't take long to peg the calling stations vs. the morons that call u down w/ tptk or 2pr.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by xtreem5
Check the river. If they bet into you use your notes on that player when deciding to call. In my experience it doesn't take long to peg the calling stations vs. the morons that call u down w/ tptk or 2pr.
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while i welcome advice i honestly think you have misread this thread. We are talking about a very specific situation. You flop a draw like an oesd and bet both the flop and turn. The villan check calls both streets. To your dismay the river is a brick. A book by a limit expert by the handle of stoxpoker(sp?) says you should basically bet everyday and twice on sunday as you don't need them to fold often at all. This book as pointed out by pkr is written for medium to high stakes games where donks don't check-call with weak under pairs. So the question is in penny games should we still bluff the river or are we better off saying no mas. From my expierence a bluff bet in this spot at penny stakes shows little if any profit and is likely throwing money away. I honestly don't think the villan folds the river often enough to show a profit by bluffing the river.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by xtreem5
Check the river. If they bet into you use your notes on that player when deciding to call. In my experience it doesn't take long to peg the calling stations vs. the morons that call u down w/ tptk or 2pr.
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We call this a bluff-call where I come from. lol
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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