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littleogre
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12-12-2007, 07:18 PM
Post subject: something else i just read that i need explained
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Ok i'm reading advanced holdem for the 1st time. The subject i would like to discuss is checking A/k from the bb. The autor says that if atleast one aggressive player limps in from ep you should check A/k then c-raise the flop. Ok why is this better then just leading out with your A/k pf ?
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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sorry i made a typo. Your would clearly raise the flop as it is kinda hard to c-raise a player that acts before you
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Hermann the Lombard
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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You're in the BB so you can theoretically c/r anyone except the SB, and preflop you obviously can't lead, you're just responding to the EP limp by an aggressive player.
This play is new to me, though I've seen it done. I suppose you have to adjust how often you mix this play in against someone who was trying to limp/re-raise. Maybe that's part of the point: this guy wanted to put in at least two bets PF but wanted to make sure as many as possible came along for the ride. Your check thwarts that plan and makes him even more eager to bet the flop. Meanwhile you see the flop and have a better idea where you stand relative to villain's range.
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Oh, no! Not another learning experience!
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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Usually a raise with AK preflop is to limit the field, hopefully with position. When there are already limpers and you are in the BB, you can't think the field or gain position. Your raise just bloats the pot, and if you whiff the flop, often you have to bet/check-fold or bet/bet.
If one of the limpers is aggressive though, you can just check, and check-raise any dry flop and have gain more initiative (where often the betting will go, check-raise then bet the turn and villain folds).
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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I raise AK preflop for value, not to thin the field.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Ok i asked about this at 2p2 seeing as how sklansky hangs out over there and while he did not answer me personaly a few others did. It seems that beting is the correct play but checking is better if the following criteria is met.
1 only 1 or 2 people have entered the pot.
2 all are aggressive flop players who will frequently bet the flop with air. The question i have is exactly what is frequently? If my hud says the villan bets the flop 35 percent of the time is that frequent enough?
At any rate it is likely another play that should be used sparingly at penny stakes.
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Hermann the Lombard
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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I don't know if 35% is airy enough for this play; likely it is at micro FR though it's not much higher than LAGTAG ranges at higher-limit 6-max.
I think this play would be largely wasted at micro stakes.
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Oh, no! Not another learning experience!
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arborman
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
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I very often check or complete the blind with hands like AJo or KQo (in a family pot - nevermind blindwars etc). AKs is a raise every time, though I occasionally go slow with AKo.
I know it's been posted here a number of times, but there are advantages and disadvantages to doing so. Big unsuited broadway cards are mostly about hitting top pair and chasing off the draws.
Advantages to checking/completing:
1. Stealth. If you hit you can checkraise for value or to thin the field, and make any draws pay extra.
2. Stealth. If you have reasonably tag stats, people don't generally put you on such a strong hand, so they are more likely to call down with a weaker kicker.
3. Escape. If you miss you can check and see what the action is like before deciding to go ahead. In a multiway pot, unpaired overcards are pretty weak, especially if the board pairs or has some ugly draws.
Disadvantages:
1. If you hit top pair and checkraise but everyone calls on a drawy board, the pot will be big enough for them to call down on you. You may even be reraised, and find yourself out of position with top pair facing aggression.
I know there are others, but I have to go...
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