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jutah
Old 01-07-2007, 09:02 PM     Post subject: Some random questions? #1 (permalink)  

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jutah
Hi all

I use to play full table micro limit at over at Paradise. When I couldn't play there anymore(U.S player problem) I went to ABS. Over at ABS most of there micro tables are Max 6. I have some questions about the move from one to the other?

1. About on average how many bbs do you guys bring to the table for a session? I have been bringing about 50 and it seems to be ok.

2. About how many bbs an hour is a good win rate? When do you guys consider moving up in level?

3. I have noticed at full table over at Paradise my variance was low, I would pretty consistenly win without big swings. Now it is not unusual to see big swings, is this normal for SH compared to full table?

4. Although I seem to be consistently winning it is at a much lower rate then at full tables, is this normal or should I start seeing the same rate eventually?

Thanks,

Jutah

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Old 01-07-2007, 10:02 PM     Post subject: Re: Some random questions? #2 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jutah
1. About on average how many bbs do you guys bring to the table for a session? I have been bringing about 50 and it seems to be ok.
enough to cap every street, and then some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jutah
2. About how many bbs an hour is a good win rate? When do you guys consider moving up in level?
depends on how many tables you play :P and how fast they run. 2BB/100 is a good winrate. move up when you have 3BB/100 over a sizable number of hands (around 10k). heck, move up at 2 just because the difference in skill levels won't be that much at the micros, and you'll make more money. or if you have 300BB at any given limit and you're comfortable, just dive in. (a very conservative recommendation would be 500BB for shorthanded limit)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jutah
3. I have noticed at full table over at Paradise my variance was low, I would pretty consistenly win without big swings. Now it is not unusual to see big swings, is this normal for SH compared to full table?
yes. shorthanded games are more aggressive, blinds come around twice as fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jutah
4. Although I seem to be consistently winning it is at a much lower rate then at full tables, is this normal or should I start seeing the same rate eventually?
a good SH player typically makes more money than a good FR player. although you can probably make up for the difference by 10 tabling FR.
 
euphoricism
Old 01-08-2007, 06:46 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
move up when you have 3BB/100 over a sizable number of hands (around 10k).
Anyone here at all with 3bb/100 over a sizable number of hands at any stake?
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Old 01-08-2007, 07:15 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
Quote:
move up when you have 3BB/100 over a sizable number of hands (around 10k).
Anyone here at all with 3bb/100 over a sizable number of hands at any stake?
i haven't played LHE in a long time, so my reply may be a year out of date
 
elipsesjeff
Old 01-08-2007, 07:20 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 It has been a while but Nehmer might be pulling in those kinda stats.

3bb/100 used to be a much easier attainable number 2 years ago, but i've done it. The last time i did it was 10/20 6 max I pulled 2 bb/100 over 20k hands and 3 bb/100 over 10k hands, but that was in June of 2006. I also spent 4 months perfecting my game to get it that high.


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euphoricism
Old 01-08-2007, 03:43 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
June 2007
Its that whole time-travel causing variance thing gnomes
always talked about.
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pokerfanatic
Old 01-08-2007, 04:44 PM #7 (permalink)  
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300bb for a game is to small imo i think 500bb for 6m is more a standard, 100bb swings are not uncommon and 200+ have happened to people, so if you take a -100bb swing on a 300bb roll you'll be dropping down a couple levels all over again. now if you don't mind that then have at it, but you'll have to adjust your play again, and start over, no one likes taking steps backwards that are huge steps.

with limit the way it is now i would be impressed if you held a 2bb/100 win rate over a solid chunk of hands at anything around 3/6 and up. i think that 0.5/1 is a level that playing 6m is just pointless, it's beatable don't get me wrong but it will get very frustrating at times when you get it in the ass by things like J2o every other hand. I don't really recall the last time i actually beat 0.5/1 6m consistently.

I think the very lowest level of 6m you should consider playing is 1/2, and from what i have seen there are still live games out there if you know where to look. i think that at 1/2 2 or 3bb/100 is still reachable, anyways have fun till next time regards pokerfanatic.
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bigspenda73
Old 01-08-2007, 06:19 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic
I think that 0.5/1 is a level that playing 6m is just pointless, it's beatable don't get me wrong but it will get very frustrating at times when you get it in the ass by things like J2o every other hand. I don't really recall the last time i actually beat 0.5/1 6m consistently.
I disagree as I have been playing horrible tilty poker over the last 5k hands and still have a +winrate. I will admit that at this level bonuses clear horribly. That being said, not many ppl can start with a 1k BR necessary for 1/2 6max. Im just tryin to get my roll there as soon as possible. From what I've seen at .5/1 you do not see the J2o anymore at 6max. At any given tables as FT I am consistently up against 2-3 25/15 type players.

I will agree that 1/2 is a good level to play and clear bonuses. However, the play there is not as poor as everyone is assuming.
elipsesjeff
Old 01-08-2007, 06:33 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 If you use proper table selection and play correctly, I think 2 bb/100 is still obtainable in SHLHE. But I think it would take a lot of work and your hourly rate (which is the most important) would suffer.


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Old 01-08-2007, 07:30 PM #10 (permalink)  
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i disagree with playing at 1/2. avoid it like the plague. it almost costs the same in rake to play there as it does at 2/4.

unless your tactics are specialized in dealing with nitty bonus clearers, you're not gonna make too much here.
 
bigspenda73
Old 01-08-2007, 07:51 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 Running 3bb/100 is attainable if you want to factor in bonuses/rakeback. Instead of telling people to avoid .5/1 and 1/2 I think we need to accept the fact that people are playing these stakes because of BR reasons. We should be discussing how to beat them not how to avoid them.

My suggestions for beating .5/1 & 1/2
1. Bonus>Rakeback (if specifically bonus whoring)
2. HUD/PT is necessary
--This helps to stay away from the regular grinders. We are looking for the fish.
3. Try to play at site's peak hours
4. Move site to site
--FTP
--Absolute
--UB
--------If you clear the 3 bonuses at these sites for their full amount and play just break even poker you will have accumulated $2K in bonuses, enough added with your roll to play 2/4 or 3/6.
pokerfanatic
Old 01-09-2007, 12:21 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Please don't start with the bull shit of NL makes more money I’ll lock the thread in a heart beat, this is a limit topic answer the questions about limit 6m... thank you...

All I did was expand upon Hyper’s post with my own ideas. I never said they were wrong. It’s a matter of what the player is conferrable playing with… I said I THINK 0.5/1 is pointless, and not to play less then 1/2... it was an opinion and yet I always have one person try and shot what I say down... it gets old I mean I could be a real big dick head about shit but I’m not... those are your opinions and you are entitled to that however that doesn’t make mine wrong and yours right... these are my answers to his questions directly, if you differ you don't need to tell me I’m wrong, tell the original poster your opinion it might make you look bettor. Instead of debating with me about what I have to say, try giving advice of your own… just a friendly suggestion, I’m not trying to start a war, just trying to make my topic that I mod more productive with information…

Quote:
1. About on average how many bbs do you guys bring to the table for a session? I have been bringing about 50 and it seems to be ok.
my answer: 25 is fine

Quote:
2. About how many bbs an hour is a good win rate? When do you guys consider moving up in level?
my answer: 2bb/100 is good, but it doesn't always mean you should move up, some will disagree with me and that's totally fine, it is about when you are conferrable to move up, don't force yourself just because you have the bank roll...

Quote:
3. I have noticed at full table over at Paradise my variance was low, I would pretty consistently win without big swings. Now it is not unusual to see big swings, is this normal for SH compared to full table?
My answer: yea of course 6m is going to be higher variance, expect +/- 50-100bb swings

Quote:
4. Although I seem to be consistently winning it is at a much lower rate then at full tables, is this normal or should I start seeing the same rate eventually?
My answer: a solid 6m player can exploit more bb/100 at his game then a solid FR player. Given the nature of the game more people make mistakes playing 6m, more frequently.
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Nehmer
Old 01-09-2007, 12:49 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
It has been a while but Nehmer might be pulling in those kinda stats.
Anymore I am happy if I run at 1.5+ BB/100 for a month(about 60,000 hands). I would say an average month for me is probably more around 0.8-1.0 BB/100 though. A little over a year ago, I had a month where I made 3.22 BB/100 playing 3/6 and 5/10 FR, but that was only about 35,000 hands(played less because I was making so much). I'm sure that 3+ is still possible at micro stakes, but anybody good enough to do that should be playing higher stakes ASAP. Anybody making 3+ over a sizable sample at 2/4+ these days is either a poker god or needs to tell me what site they are playing at where people still suck so bad Keep in mind these are all FR stats and I'm not sure how playing SH would affect the numbers.
jutah
Old 01-09-2007, 12:53 AM #14 (permalink)  

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jutah
Thanks guys

I have been playing .10 - .20 and have ~2.6/100 bb for ~2500 hands. I figured I would stay at that level till I have about 10k hands and see where my bb/100 is then.

Jutah
Xanadu
Old 01-09-2007, 02:13 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic
Please don't start with the bull shit of NL makes more money I’ll lock the thread in a heart beat, this is a limit topic answer the questions about limit 6m... thank you...

All I did was expand upon Hyper’s post with my own ideas. I never said they were wrong. It’s a matter of what the player is conferrable playing with… I said I THINK 0.5/1 is pointless, and not to play less then 1/2... it was an opinion and yet I always have one person try and shot what I say down... it gets old I mean I could be a real big dick head about shit but I’m not... those are your opinions and you are entitled to that however that doesn’t make mine wrong and yours right... these are my answers to his questions directly, if you differ you don't need to tell me I’m wrong, tell the original poster your opinion it might make you look bettor. Instead of debating with me about what I have to say, try giving advice of your own… just a friendly suggestion, I’m not trying to start a war, just trying to make my topic that I mod more productive with information…
Where did this come from? Did a post get deleted here?
euphoricism
Old 01-09-2007, 02:26 AM #16 (permalink)  
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no, fanatic just kinds does that once a month.
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pokerfanatic
Old 01-09-2007, 04:44 AM #17 (permalink)  
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{locked by PokerFanatic}

{Topic became about something completely different then it was intended. Less crap about how is correct or not will be expected in the future. This is a topic that is trying to help players not completely confuse them by going on tangents like the one we just went on. You want to make posts make them so that they answer the question not contradict other posters material unless it’s completely wrong. If it is opinion based, respect the opinion and give your own in a way that it is clear and answers the original posters questions. I see posts end up talking about completely of subject bull shit and 2 people debating about trivial bull shit usually that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. I have seen FTR turn into a 2p2 that doesn’t have the famous poker players to back it. This doesn’t sound like much of a “community” that it is intended to be. If Xianti disagrees with the way I’m trying to turn around the path of this topic then he can remove me as mod. Until then I’ll do what I think best fits the topic.

You wonder where I got it Jeff implied that you win rate would suffer. Jeff also plays NL now he doesn’t even play 6m limit. So someone that knows this could easily draw a line from point A to point B and turn it into “nl has a higher win rate” type post. I have locked this topic because this is getting no where and he has the answers to his questions. From many sources, next question please.}
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