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Some preflop questions

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chardrian

09-01-2006, 06:44 PM Post subject: Some preflop questions

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I have to admit that a lot of my game is still based on gut rather than knowledge. So I just want to get back to some basics. All my questions are for shorthanded games 5 or 6 max. And I am assuming that when it gets to you everyone else has folded. I realize that the questions I am asking often will have an answer of it depends. But I am looking for some general thoughts.

1) Against a standard TAG (30/20) - is it fair to say that a standard preflop raising range is 22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo (i.e. any pair, any broadway, and any suited A?). How much does this range change depending on what position the TAG is raising from?

2) If this is the range, then what hands do you raise with in position?

3) If this is the range, then what hands do you defend with in the SB? And how much does this change depending on what position the TAG is raising from (i.e. if he is raising UTG compared to raising from the button)?

4) If this is the range, then what hands do you defend with in the BB? Again - how much does this change depending on the TAG's position?

5) When you defend how do you defend? Do you defend by calling or by 3-betting? What percentage do you do each? What are the factors in making you choose?

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chardrian

09-01-2006, 06:51 PM

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I am going to try and answer some of my own questions and would appreciate comments and criticisms.

1) Against a standard TAG (30/20) - is it fair to say that a standard preflop raising range is 22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo (i.e. any pair, any broadway, and any suited A?). How much does this range change depending on what position the TAG is raising from?

I think that is a pretty fair range. I think the range tightens up from early position - e.g. from UTG and UTG+1 I think you can take out hands like A2-A8s and maybe hands like TJ-TK from standard TAGs. I think this range is a pretty good standby for checking lines on pokerstove against a TAG raise from the CO. And I think you probably need to add some hands like A7os+, and 9T-9Ks if it gets folded to a TAG button.

chardrian

09-01-2006, 07:05 PM

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2) If this is the range, then what hands do you raise with in position?

Against this range 66, AT and QKs are all basically cointosses. However, position definitely matters and you don't want to let the blinds in, so I think if you want to play these hands you need to raise em here. In general, I am raising 88+, AJ+ and QKs is an "it depends". The position of the original raiser matters as well - if I am the button and the raise came from the CO I might 3 bet with any pocket pair and AT. If it came from UTG and I am the button, I might fold AJ.

I have also been experimenting with coldcalling with hands like 77-, and any suited broadways specifically to let the blinds in and give myself some implied odds. If a flop hits - great, if not I can fold with little damage. What do you think about doing this?

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chardrian

09-01-2006, 07:59 PM

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3) If this is the range, then what hands do you defend with in the SB? And how much does this change depending on what position the TAG is raising from (i.e. if he is raising UTG compared to raising from the button)?

For me, blind play is by far the hardest part Limit. When I started, I coldcalled way way too many hands. I then got into a phase where I tightened up too much. And I still don't feel like I have a good grip on blind play.

Here's some of my problems. If you cold call from the SB, you generally are going to be betting 1.5 SBs into a pot of what will become either 5 or 6 SBs (usually 6 since most BBs will call with any or almost any 2 after being given 5 to 1 odds).

If it is 1.5 to win 6SBs than you need to win just over 25% of the time for a coldcall to be +EV. If the BB does not call than you need to win just over 30%.

Clearly from the SB I think you want to raise with any hand AJ+, 88+.

The trickier question to me is what is ok to coldcall with?

A hand like K9s is about a 40/60 dog to this range heads up, but when you add a random third hand from the BB it has about a 33% shot.

I guess my line lately has been to just play raise or fold from the SB - but it seems to me that coldcalling might be a +EV play from the SB with some hands.... am I losing value by folding these hands right now?

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elipsesjeff

09-02-2006, 03:58 PM

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Quote:

I have also been experimenting with coldcalling with hands like 77-, and any suited broadways specifically to let the blinds in and give myself some implied odds. If a flop hits - great, if not I can fold with little damage. What do you think about doing this?

I hate it. If in position and you have opportunity to get it HU, I 3bet 22+ here. As, you arent going for set value you are just going that your opponent will miss the flop 2 out of 3 times. Bet the flop, if he calls, bet the turn, if he calls check/fold the river on most boards. You'll find that even if opponent was raising a better pair than you, like 88, then they'll fold with an ace on the flop because its very likely that you have one. Otherwise, the ATo+, ATs+, KQo+ and 22+ are all auto 3bets against most tags.

Quote:

The trickier question to me is what is ok to coldcall with?

This is where you need to do some pokerstove calculations. There are some hands where, against opponent's range you have higher equity if it is 3 way than if it is HU (JTo is a big example). So, a hand like this should be called IMO in the SB more than raised because your pot equity compared to how much you are putting in and how much you can win is a lot better.

You'll find that the case as well for similar hands like QJo, and others that would strike you odd.

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chardrian

09-04-2006, 03:53 AM

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I understand 3 betting with any pair with position - but what about hands like TJ or JQs? Again you can three bet to rep the Ace/high pockets, but these hands also do well multi-way and if you do hit they are usually pretty well hidden so you can maximize value on the turn and river if you do hit, but you are only losing 1BB by calling and then folding on just nasty flops.

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Some preflop questions

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