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Miffed22001

12-12-2005, 06:19 PM Post subject: Some feedback

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

Cn i have some comments/suggestions on how to play these hands any better please. I think some are ok

Hand 1580411063, Started at 12/12/2005 5:54 PM
Table 'Belmopan': $1-$2 Limit HE (Real Money)
Seat 0: Miffed22001. ($75 in chips)
Seat 8: orudden ($63 in chips) (on the button)
Seat 9: baylorpoker ($102.40 in chips)
*** Blind Bet Round *** :
Dealt to Miffed22001.: Js
Dealt to Miffed22001.: 9c
baylorpoker : Post Blind ($0.50)
Miffed22001. : Post Blind ($1)
*** Pre-Flop *** :
orudden : Call ($1)
baylorpoker : Call ($0.50)
Miffed22001. : Check
*** Flop *** : 10s Qd 3h
baylorpoker : Bet ($1)
Miffed22001. : Call ($1)
orudden : Fold
*** Turn *** : [ 10s Qd 3h ] 8d
baylorpoker : Check
Miffed22001. : Bet ($2)
baylorpoker : Call ($2)
*** River *** : [ 10s Qd 3h 8d ] 6s
baylorpoker : Check
Miffed22001. : Bet ($2)
baylorpoker : Call ($2)
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $12.60 | Rake: $0.40
Board: [ 10s Qd 3h 8d 6s ]
Miffed22001. bet $6, collected $12.60, net $6.60 Shows [ Js 9c ] (a straight, Queen high.)
orudden lost $1
baylorpoker lost $6
I think i made the most of this. Check raising scares him away.

My odds on the turn here suck, but i know if the jack falls he'll pay.
What can i do about his preflop call, this just aggravates me to hell when he shows down his cards.
and 1580413787, Started at 12/12/2005 5:55 PM
Table 'Belmopan': $1-$2 Limit HE (Real Money)
Seat 0: Miffed22001. ($81.10 in chips)
Seat 8: orudden ($59.40 in chips) (on the button)
Seat 9: baylorpoker ($99 in chips)
*** Blind Bet Round *** :
Dealt to Miffed22001.: Ks
Dealt to Miffed22001.: Qh
baylorpoker : Post Blind ($0.50)
Miffed22001. : Post Blind ($1)
*** Pre-Flop *** :
orudden : Call ($1)
baylorpoker : Call ($0.50)
Miffed22001. : Bet ($1)
orudden : Fold
baylorpoker : Call ($1)
*** Flop *** : 9h 10h 9c
baylorpoker : Check
Miffed22001. : Check
*** Turn *** : [ 9h 10h 9c ] 7h
baylorpoker : Bet ($2)
Miffed22001. : Call ($2)
*** River *** : [ 9h 10h 9c 7h ] 8c
baylorpoker : Check
Miffed22001. : Check
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $8.60 | Rake: $0.40
Board: [ 9h 10h 9c 7h 8c ]
Miffed22001. lost $4
orudden lost $1
baylorpoker bet $4, collected $8.60, net $4.60 Shows [ 9s 5s ] (three nines.)

Do i bet the turn here or try to see cheap showdown? Calling the river reraise was dumb i know.
Hand 1580415110, Started at 12/12/2005 5:55 PM
Table 'Belmopan': $1-$2 Limit HE (Real Money)
Seat 0: Miffed22001. ($77.10 in chips)
Seat 8: orudden ($58.40 in chips)
Seat 9: baylorpoker ($103.60 in chips) (on the button)
*** Blind Bet Round *** :
Dealt to Miffed22001.: 10d
Dealt to Miffed22001.: As
Miffed22001. : Post Blind ($0.50)
orudden : Post Blind ($1)
*** Pre-Flop *** :
baylorpoker : Fold
Miffed22001. : Bet ($1.50)
orudden : Call ($1)
*** Flop *** : Ad 4s 6h
Miffed22001. : Check
orudden : Check
*** Turn *** : [ Ad 4s 6h ] 9d
Miffed22001. : Bet ($2)
orudden : Call ($2)
*** River *** : [ Ad 4s 6h 9d ] Jd
Miffed22001. : Bet ($2)
orudden : Raise ($4)
Miffed22001. : Call ($2)
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $15.60 | Rake: $0.40
Board: [ Ad 4s 6h 9d Jd ]
Miffed22001. lost $8 Shows [ 10d As ] (a pair of Aces.)
orudden bet $8, collected $15.60, net $7.60 Shows [ Kd 2d ] (a flush, Ace high.)

If i met this guy in real life i would strangle him for the amount of times he calls me down and gets lucky. Even if i check raise at any point he will still call. So i went and bet anyway. This is a typical hand for me where i get outdrawn. Any way to combat it? I think its a cas of OMG im one card from a straight! type thing
Hand 1580484821, Started at 12/12/2005 6:19 PM
Table 'Belmopan': $1-$2 Limit HE (Real Money)
Seat 0: Miffed22001. ($57.80 in chips)
Seat 1: donjeremy ($48.45 in chips)
Seat 4: -juvenic- ($36.80 in chips)
Seat 5: garrett138 ($14 in chips) (on the button)
Seat 8: Kromosom ($68.15 in chips)
*** Blind Bet Round *** :
Dealt to Miffed22001.: 10d
Dealt to Miffed22001.: 9h
Kromosom : Post Blind ($0.50)
Miffed22001. : Post Blind ($1)
*** Pre-Flop *** :
donjeremy : Fold
-juvenic- : Fold
garrett138 : Fold
Kromosom : Call ($0.50)
Miffed22001. : Check
*** Flop *** : 9d 7h Js
Kromosom : Check
Miffed22001. : Bet ($1)
Kromosom : Call ($1)
*** Turn *** : [ 9d 7h Js ] Ad
Kromosom : Check
Miffed22001. : Bet ($2)
Kromosom : Call ($2)
*** River *** : [ 9d 7h Js Ad ] Qc
Kromosom : Check
Miffed22001. : Check
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $7.60 | Rake: $0.40
Board: [ 9d 7h Js Ad Qc ]
Miffed22001. lost $4
donjeremy lost $0
-juvenic- lost $0
garrett138 lost $0
Kromosom bet $4, collected $7.60, net $3.60 Shows [ Qs Kc ] (a pair of Queens.)

Is this ok preflop? im building a pot for a nice flop which i get but even if i raise the flop they chase. I guess im screwed on the turn and is that a good fold?

Hand 1580534802, Started at 12/12/2005 6:36 PM
Table 'Springfield': $1-$2 Limit HE (Real Money)
Seat 0: Miffed22001. ($66.10 in chips) (on the button)
Seat 1: Thunder24 ($91.65 in chips)
Seat 3: Eraizzer ($61.60 in chips)
Seat 7: Keno_66 ($88 in chips)
Seat 9: chloe baby ($71.95 in chips)
*** Blind Bet Round *** :
Dealt to Miffed22001.: Jc
Dealt to Miffed22001.: Js
Thunder24 : Post Blind ($0.50)
Eraizzer : Post Blind ($1)
*** Pre-Flop *** :
Keno_66 : Bet ($2)
chloe baby : Call ($2)
Miffed22001. : Raise ($3)
Thunder24 : Fold
Eraizzer : Call ($2)
Keno_66 : Call ($1)
chloe baby : Call ($1)
*** Flop *** : 6d 4c 5c
Eraizzer : Check
Keno_66 : Bet ($1)
chloe baby : Call ($1)
Miffed22001. : Call ($1)
Eraizzer : Call ($1)
*** Turn *** : [ 6d 4c 5c ] Qs
Eraizzer : Bet ($2)
Keno_66 : Fold
chloe baby : Call ($2)
Miffed22001. : Fold
*** River *** : [ 6d 4c 5c Qs ] Kd
Eraizzer : Check
chloe baby : Bet ($2)
Eraizzer : Call ($2)
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $23.50 | Rake: $1
Board: [ 6d 4c 5c Qs Kd ]
Miffed22001. lost $4
Thunder24 lost $0.50
Eraizzer lost $8
Keno_66 lost $4
chloe baby bet $8, collected $23.50, net $15.50 Shows [ Ad Qh ] (a pair of Queens.)

Sorry if these are a bit noob but im getting badbeatz all the time and being new to limit i dont know whether that happens a lot. I think my play is generally ok im just a little fussed about being cold called by th whole table all the time then getting two paired, freak straighted on the river.

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Demiparadigm

12-12-2005, 07:29 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Party 6 max

Posts: 1,602

Meh, Shit happens.

Game #1549571323: Hold'em FL ($2/$4) - 2005/12/11 - 05:12:52 (UK)
Table "Linen" Seat 4 is the button.
Seat 1: FoolOnHil ($102.25 in chips)
Seat 2: BENZODIAZ ($59.51 in chips)
Seat 3: Sco160613 ($56.24 in chips)
Seat 4: rjdunn ($81 in chips)
Seat 5: wallygatr ($118 in chips)
Seat 6: ToastFish ($79 in chips)
wallygatr: posts small blind $1
ToastFish: posts big blind $2
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to ToastFish [Ah As]
FoolOnHil: folds
BENZODIAZ: raises $4
Sco160613: calls $4
rjdunn: folds
wallygatr: folds
ToastFish: raises $4
BENZODIAZ: raises $4
Sco160613: calls $4
ToastFish: calls $2
----- FLOP ----- [5d 3d Ac]
ToastFish: checks
BENZODIAZ: bets $2
Sco160613: calls $2
ToastFish: calls $2
----- TURN ----- [5d 3d Ac][7c]
ToastFish: checks
BENZODIAZ: bets $4
Sco160613: calls $4
ToastFish: raises $8
BENZODIAZ: calls $4
Sco160613: calls $4
----- RIVER ----- [5d 3d Ac 7c][7h]
ToastFish: bets $4
BENZODIAZ: raises $8
Sco160613: calls $8
ToastFish: raises $8
BENZODIAZ: raises $8
Sco160613: folds
ToastFish: calls $4
----- SHOW DOWN -----
BENZODIAZ: shows [7s 7d] (Four of a kind, Sevens, Ace high)
ToastFish: mucks hand
BENZODIAZ collected $92 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot $95 Main pot $92 Rake $3
Board [5d 3d Ac 7c 7h]
Seat 1: FoolOnHil folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: BENZODIAZ showed [7s 7d] and won ($92) with Four of a kind, Sevens, Ace high
Seat 3: Sco160613 folded on the River
Seat 4: rjdunn (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: wallygatr (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: ToastFish (big blind) mucked
****HAND ENDS****

To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.

thenonsequitur

12-12-2005, 11:19 PM Post subject: Re: Some feedback

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Location: Location

Posts: 637

HAND 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

I think i made the most of this. Check raising scares him away.

You're in position. Check-raising is not possible.

If you think raising the flop has a high probabiltiy of buying you a free turn and a low probability of getting re-raised, you should raise the flop. Otherwise, you played it fine.

HAND 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

My odds on the turn here suck, but i know if the jack falls he'll pay.

Your odds on the turn don't suck. You have a Q-high flush draw, which is probably the best if it comes for 9 outs; discount that to 7 because sometimes villian has A

or K

and sometimes the flush card that hits also makes villian a full house. You have a nut straight draw for 3 outs. You have two overcards for 6 outs, but discount them a lot because of the nature of the board; say 3 outs. That gives you a total of 13 outs after discounts. There are 46 unknowns in the deck so the odds you will hit an out are 33:13 or about 2.5:1.

Before you call the turn, there are 3.5BB in the pot. Assume you win one more bet on the river when you hit, so you are getting 4.5:1 on your money.

So this is easily a +EV call. Even if you discount your outs by up to about 4 more (and maybe you should--I was being liberal), you still have the odds to call.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

What can i do about his preflop call, this just aggravates me to hell when he shows down his cards.

A. His preflop call wasn't that bad.
B. Even in the cases where your opponents are making bad preflop calls, there's nothing you can do about it.
C. In the cases where your opponents are making bad preflop calls, nothing is precisely what you want to do about it.

HAND 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Do i bet the turn here or try to see cheap showdown? Calling the river reraise was dumb i know.

Am I missing something here? The table is only 3-handed and you have a pair of aces with a medium kicker--a very good hand heads up, especially at a 3-handed table. If you think villian will probably bet if you check then you should probably check with the intention of check-raising. Otherwise you should bet the flop. And definitely bet the turn. You don't want him to fold. You are betting for value. Calling the river raise is mandatory, not dumb. You are getting 7:1 on your money. You only have to have the best hand 12.5% of the time to make this call. I think your opponent has a pair of jacks or weaker more than 12.5% of the time, especially since you both checked the flop (indicating to him that you don't have an A, and even moreso indicating to you that he doesn't have an A).

HAND 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

If i met this guy in real life i would strangle him for the amount of times he calls me down and gets lucky. Even if i check raise at any point he will still call. So i went and bet anyway. This is a typical hand for me where i get outdrawn. Any way to combat it? I think its a cas of OMG im one card from a straight! type thing

I think villian's biggest mistake this hand was just calling preflop. This should have been an easy preflop raise for him. His flop call is good. His turn call may be -EV, but if so not hugely so.

As for your side, you played it fine. What is it that you want to combat here? Do you want to combat him making -EV calls? Of course not! You can only win at poker if your opponents make -EV plays.

HAND 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Is this ok preflop? im building a pot for a nice flop which i get but even if i raise the flop they chase. I guess im screwed on the turn and is that a good fold?

Pre-flop is good. On the flop even if you raise they all have good odds to chase, so if you raise it has to be for value. While you do have an edge, it is small. As SSH points out, "sometimes you should forgo a small edge on the flop if doing so allows you to explot a bigger edge on the turn". Raising the flop will make the pot big enough that everyone has odds to basically call anything to the river, and your hand is vulnerable so you don't want this. You probably want to call this flop with the intention of raising a safe card on the turn where you have a bigger edge and you can protect your hand with a raise. Turn card is unfortunate, and the fold is fine. The pot is big (10 big bets when it gets to you), but even after taking into account implied odds you don't have the odds to chase your 2 outs to trips. See pages 163-165 of SSH for an example very similar to the one you just posted and a good explanation of what you should be thinking about in this type of situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Sorry if these are a bit noob but im getting badbeatz all the time and being new to limit i dont know whether that happens a lot. I think my play is generally ok im just a little fussed about being cold called by th whole table all the time then getting two paired, freak straighted on the river.

Bad beats happen all the time in limit. Get used to the variance. Also remember that most bad beats happen because of the playing tendencies of bad opponents--the same opponents that you are making money from. You seem to be at least partially caught in the "I'm losing money because my opponents chase too much" mindset. This is a dangerous mindset to have because it is so wrong (when your opponents chase too much you are making money) and it makes poker much more unpleasant to play when you can't accept the bad beats.

mike4066

12-13-2005, 01:06 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2003

Posts: 1,943

#1 looks good, I'm an advocate of straight forwared play.

#2 fold, your odds suck, the board blows, maybe one for the flush, but I think you can find a better spot.

#3 you have the lead in this hand, bet into him! What are you trying to slow play?

#4 I'd do the same.

#5 Raise the flop and I believe the turn plays differently.

Fnord

12-13-2005, 01:43 AM

#5 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

#2 bet duh flop. I see no reason to think the carp hit this flop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Miffed22001

12-15-2005, 12:11 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

cool guys thanks
i can see where some of my thinking is flawed. Im still very newb in my thinking, as in where and why its ok to raise/check etc but this stuff helps so thanks

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