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Some critique from LIMIT players

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stevedonel

09-14-2004, 05:15 AM Post subject: Some critique from LIMIT players

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Vegas

Posts: 617

Some of you may have known me under my former screen name. I have now found that having the same name on here and pokerstars to cause problems for me and my playing strategy. So a new name for steve. On to my topic

Party poker gave me $10 after I withdrew all my money, I've decided to see what I can do with it. Because $10 goes very quickly on the $25 NL tables with just a few medium hands, I'm playing limit, to build the BR. So, I lost $5 to bad beats, which I did not save the histories to. Came back later to have these two sessions (stats from pokertracker, quite possibly the coolest program ever):

Im only posting these stats because I found them to be rather unusual

Session #1 ------profit of 17.45
Level 50¢/$1
Hands 74 (I know small, but...)
Flop% 20.27
-when not blind 15.52
win when saw flop 33% (5/15)
BB/100 hands 23.58
BB/Hr 13.78
Went to showdown 26.67 (4/15)
Won $ at showdown 100% (4/4)

Aggression PF 0.12
Flop 2.50
Turn 0 (apparently, I never called the 7 turns i saw)
River 0 (again, no calls in the 4 rivers i saw)

Folded PF 80%
Flop 6.7%
Turn 5.4%
River 1.3%
No Fold 6.7%

Session #2 ------profit of 18.5
Level 50¢/$1
Hands 33 (even smaller, but much more fun)
Flop% 36.36 (I felt like my flop % was to high, but the cards were there for me)
-when not blind 29.17
win when saw flop 42% (5/12) Like I said the cards were there
BB/100 hands 56.06
BB/Hr 33.64
Went to showdown 33.33% (4/12)
Won $ at showdown 100% (4/4)

Aggression PF 0.00 (what a wimp)
Flop 3.00
Turn 4.00
River 0 (again, no calls in the 4 rivers i saw)

Folded PF 64%
Flop 18.18% (afterall, I was seeing more flops)
Turn 0%
River 3%
No Fold 15.15%

I would have kept playing but after my last win, everyone left the table. I guess I ran them over

A few hands of note:

2nd hand after joining the table. Could I have pulled anymore bets out him here? I didnt want to raise the turn with the flush out there, thinking I would need the boat to win.
***** Hand History for Game 944985969 *****
0.50/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Mon Sep 13 23:15:07 EDT 2004
Table Rocking away (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Robbiepsych ( $29.37)
Seat 2: heatherk1095 ( $79.62)
Seat 3: jims850i ( $25.50)
Seat 4: marace ( $21.50)
Seat 5: RDU_steve ( $9.50)
Seat 6: PKrasicky ( $11.75)
Seat 7: AdamMurnane ( $30.50)
Seat 8: OzricDude ( $76.39)
Seat 9: Zone773 ( $21)
Seat 10: n2ofoust ( $26.25)
Zone773 posts small blind (0.25)
n2ofoust posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to RDU_steve [ 2c, 2h ]
Robbiepsych folds.
heatherk1095 folds.
jims850i folds.
marace calls (0.50)
RDU_steve calls (0.50)
PKrasicky folds.
AdamMurnane folds.
OzricDude raises (1) to 1
Zone773 folds.
n2ofoust folds.
marace calls (0.50)
RDU_steve calls (0.50)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6c, 2d, Qc ]
marace checks.
RDU_steve bets (0.50)
OzricDude raises (1) to 1
marace folds.
RDU_steve calls (0.50)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Tc ]
RDU_steve checks.
OzricDude bets (1)
RDU_steve calls (1)
** Dealing River ** : [ Th ]
RDU_steve checks.
OzricDude bets (1)
RDU_steve raises (2) to 2
OzricDude calls (1)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $11.25 | Rake: $0.50
Board: [ 6c 2d Qc Tc Th ]
Robbiepsych balance $29.37, didn't bet (folded)
heatherk1095 balance $79.62, didn't bet (folded)
jims850i balance $25.50, didn't bet (folded)
marace balance $20.50, lost $1 (folded)
RDU_steve balance $15.75, bet $5, collected $11.25, net +$6.25 [ 2c 2h ] [ a full house, Twos full of tens -- Tc,Th,2c,2h,2d ]
PKrasicky balance $11.75, didn't bet (folded)
AdamMurnane balance $30.50, didn't bet (folded)
OzricDude balance $71.39, lost $5 [ Qs Ah ] [ two pairs, queens and tens -- Ah,Qs,Qc,Tc,Th ]
Zone773 balance $20.75, lost $0.25 (folded)
n2ofoust balance $25.75, lost $0.50 (folded)

about 20 folded hands later, this little beauty comes my way. In 7 stud, Its +EV to bet a flush draw with 2 other players in the pot; is this still a good play in LHE?
***** Hand History for Game 945097540 *****
0.50/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Mon Sep 13 23:40:26 EDT 2004
Table Rocking away (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Twizzler1929 ( $52)
Seat 2: heatherk1095 ( $90.62)
Seat 4: mrwyn ( $12.75)
Seat 5: RDU_steve ( $12.75)
Seat 6: PKrasicky ( $14)
Seat 7: ben4390 ( $17)
Seat 8: OzricDude ( $66.01)
Seat 9: Zone773 ( $32.25)
Seat 10: mjakiels ( $28.25)
PKrasicky posts small blind (0.25)
ben4390 posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to RDU_steve [ Ah, 5h ]
OzricDude calls (0.50)
Zone773 calls (0.50)
mjakiels calls (0.50)
Twizzler1929 folds.
heatherk1095 folds.
mrwyn calls (0.50)
RDU_steve calls (0.50)
PKrasicky calls (0.25)
ben4390 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 3h, 3d, Qh ]
PKrasicky checks.
ben4390 checks.
OzricDude folds.
Zone773 checks.
mjakiels checks.
mrwyn checks.
RDU_steve bets (0.50)
PKrasicky folds.
ben4390 folds.
Zone773 calls (0.50)
mjakiels folds.
mrwyn folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4h ]
Zone773 checks.
RDU_steve bets (1)
Zone773 calls (1)
** Dealing River ** : [ 6c ]
Zone773 checks.
RDU_steve bets (1)
Zone773 calls (1)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $8 | Rake: $0.50
Board: [ 3h 3d Qh 4h 6c ]
Twizzler1929 balance $52, didn't bet (folded)
heatherk1095 balance $90.62, didn't bet (folded)
mrwyn balance $12.25, lost $0.50 (folded)
RDU_steve balance $17.75, bet $3, collected $8, net +$5 [ Ah 5h ] [ a flush, ace high -- Ah,Qh,5h,4h,3h ]
PKrasicky balance $13.50, lost $0.50 (folded)
ben4390 balance $16.50, lost $0.50 (folded)
OzricDude balance $65.51, lost $0.50 (folded)
Zone773 balance $29.25, lost $3 [ 8s 8h ] [ two pairs, eights and threes -- Qh,8s,8h,3h,3d ]
mjakiels balance $27.75, lost $0.50 (folded)

3 hands later, my dominant rush is begining 8-)
***** Hand History for Game 945110202 *****
miklj2 has left the table.
0.50/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Mon Sep 13 23:43:18 EDT 2004
Table Rocking away (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Twizzler1929 ( $52)
Seat 2: heatherk1095 ( $90.62)
Seat 4: mrwyn ( $12.25)
Seat 5: RDU_steve ( $17.75)
Seat 6: PKrasicky ( $13.50)
Seat 7: ben4390 ( $20)
Seat 8: OzricDude ( $63.01)
Seat 9: Zone773 ( $28.75)
Seat 10: mjakiels ( $27.75)
Zone773 posts small blind (0.25)
mjakiels is sitting out.
Twizzler1929 posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to RDU_steve [ 8c, Tc ]
heatherk1095 folds.
mrwyn folds.
RDU_steve calls (0.50)
PKrasicky folds.
ben4390 folds.
OzricDude raises (1) to 1
Zone773 folds.
Twizzler1929 calls (0.50)
RDU_steve calls (0.50)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6c, 8d, 8s ]
Twizzler1929 checks.
RDU_steve checks.
OzricDude bets (0.50)
Twizzler1929 calls (0.50)
RDU_steve calls (0.50)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 3c ]
Twizzler1929 checks.
RDU_steve checks.
OzricDude bets (1)
Twizzler1929 folds.
RDU_steve raises (2) to 2 Felt this was the best time to check-raise: push draws out, larger bets, larger pot to keep the fish in with -EV hands, when twizzler folded it sealed the deal.
OzricDude calls (1)
** Dealing River ** : [ Ts ]
RDU_steve bets (1)
OzricDude calls (1)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $10.25 | Rake: $0.50
Board: [ 6c 8d 8s 3c Ts ]
Twizzler1929 balance $50.50, lost $1.50 (folded)
heatherk1095 balance $90.62, didn't bet (folded)
mrwyn balance $12.25, didn't bet (folded)
RDU_steve balance $23.50, bet $4.50, collected $10.25, net +$5.75 [ 8c Tc ] [ a full house, Eights full of tens -- Tc,Ts,8c,8d,8s ]
PKrasicky balance $13.50, didn't bet (folded)
ben4390 balance $20, didn't bet (folded)
OzricDude balance $58.51, lost $4.50 [ Qh Ad ] [ a pair of eights -- Ad,Qh,Ts,8d,8s ]
Zone773 balance $28.50, lost $0.25 (folded)

2 hands later the, the BB special
***** Hand History for Game 945118881 *****
0.50/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Mon Sep 13 23:45:17 EDT 2004
Table Rocking away (Real Money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: Twizzler1929 ( $48)
Seat 2: heatherk1095 ( $90.12)
Seat 4: mrwyn ( $10.75)
Seat 5: RDU_steve ( $23.50)
Seat 6: PKrasicky ( $13.50)
Seat 7: ben4390 ( $16.50)
Seat 8: OzricDude ( $58.51)
Seat 9: Zone773 ( $36)
heatherk1095 posts small blind (0.25)
mrwyn is sitting out.
RDU_steve posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to RDU_steve [ 4h, 3h ]
PKrasicky calls (0.50)
ben4390 folds.
OzricDude calls (0.50)
Zone773 calls (0.50)
Twizzler1929 calls (0.50)
heatherk1095 folds.
RDU_steve checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ac, 2s, 5c ]
RDU_steve checks.
PKrasicky bets (0.50)
OzricDude calls (0.50)
Zone773 folds.
Twizzler1929 folds.
RDU_steve raises (1) to 1 I was laughing uncontrolably all the way to the river after this check-raise, benefit of playing online
PKrasicky calls (0.50)
OzricDude calls (0.50)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Jh ]
RDU_steve bets (1)
PKrasicky calls (1)
OzricDude folds.
** Dealing River ** : [ Qs ]
RDU_steve bets (1)
PKrasicky calls (1)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $9.25 | Rake: $0.50
Board: [ Ac 2s 5c Jh Qs ]
Twizzler1929 balance $47.50, lost $0.50 (folded)
heatherk1095 balance $89.87, lost $0.25 (folded)
RDU_steve balance $29.25, bet $3.50, collected $9.25, net +$5.75 [ 4h 3h ] [ a straight, ace to five -- Ac,5c,4h,3h,2s ]
PKrasicky balance $10, lost $3.50 [ Ad 2d ] [ two pairs, aces and twos -- Ad,Ac,Qs,2d,2s ]
ben4390 balance $16.50, didn't bet (folded)
OzricDude balance $57.01, lost $1.50 (folded)
Zone773 balance $35.50, lost $0.50 (folded)

3 hands later, It was down to myself and two other players. Everyone esle said "Time to go" "g-nite" ect.
33 BBs in 7 hands, not to bad. If that 20 hand drought wasnt in there, my BB/100 hands numbers would be over 400. Who hates limit now? I will probably continue to play limit exclusively for a little while on party, then switch back and forth between NL and Limit.

I know these numbers will even out in the long run, but what advice can you give me on how to get more bets into the pot? Greedy bastid that I am.

[CARDSON]

Is that guy still part of the forum??

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Fnord

09-14-2004, 05:36 AM

#2 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

It's all about the long run man.

I once dropped $50 playing .5/1...

Oh, and on the pocket 2s hand, either 3-bet the flop or check/raise the turn. You can't win big in limit via slow play.

Oh, one more thing, you're being silly about the name thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

stuck

09-14-2004, 05:44 AM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 586

Yeah, like Fnord said, with the deuces, you need to checkraise the turn with the dueces, and then bet the river. This prevents it from being checked through on the river and you losing a bet.

If I had a hammer
I'd drop in the morning
I'd drop in the evening..

Fnord

09-14-2004, 06:00 AM

#4 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

It's hard to cap a bunch of streets if you check+call to trap with your best hands....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

stevedonel

09-14-2004, 01:15 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Vegas

Posts: 617

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I'm sure things will even out over time.

On the pocket twos, I agree, I should have 3-bet the flop. But why would I check raise the turn? I've only got 10 outs to a real winning hand here. When I used to play 3/6 on stars I always played real tight, everyone made fun of me, but I averaged 15BB/hr. I'm still getting used to lower limit HE. I check-raised the river because he had been aggressive on the flop and turn, I figured he would continue on the river.

Oh, and the name thing. You may recall post of mine about someone calling me out on FTR teaching me how to play aggressive. I had two people on stars do it last night. Once in a ring game. The other when I got heads up in an SnG, my opponent quoted a post of mine while I was using the strategy of said post. Kinda irratating, but I still beat him using another strategy.

Is that guy still part of the forum??

Toasty

09-14-2004, 01:22 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: England UK

Posts: 1,522

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveDonel

When I used to play 3/6 on stars I always played real tight, everyone made fun of me, but I averaged 15BB/hr.

Is that a typo ? Otherwise you would be winning $90 an hour, even more 2/3 tableing. I'm very doubtful the worlds best limit player's couldn't beat it for this over the long run.

The 2+2 sharks are only making around 3BBs/100 hands.

Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .

stevedonel

09-14-2004, 06:42 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Vegas

Posts: 617

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toasty

Is that a typo ? Otherwise you would be winning $90 an hour, even more 2/3 tableing.

Not a typo, more of a miscommunication. It was on 4 tables, so really only 3.75BB/hr/table and it only lasted about 2 weeks. Then I lost $500 in two days and stopped playing all LHE and almost all ring games. It's been 3 months and I'm just now getting back into them.

Is that guy still part of the forum??

Toasty

09-15-2004, 07:58 AM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: England UK

Posts: 1,522

When you calculate how much you are beating a game for you are supposed to include the losses too dude

Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .

stevedonel

09-15-2004, 04:26 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Vegas

Posts: 617

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toasty

When you calculate how much you are beating a game for you are supposed to include the losses too dude

Hence the "used to"

Is that guy still part of the forum??

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Some critique from LIMIT players

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