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Some 20/40 hands

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Demiparadigm

05-01-2005, 12:21 AM Post subject: Some 20/40 hands

#1 (permalink)

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I already posted these in my "operation"
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=10464
But wanted to get a little discussion going, especially on the 5d7d hand.

HAND 1-
I am CO with A

UTG calls, MP2 calls, I raise, button calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls

Flop (10.5SBs) A

BB checks, UTG bets, MP2 calls, I raise, button folds, BB folds, UTG 3-bets, MP2 caps, I call, UTG calls

Turn (11BBs) 9

UTG bets ( I put him on the nuts here.) MP2 raises. I ask "what do you think that I have?" MP2 replies "I know what you have, which is why I am going to make you pay to get there." this means he think I have a draw, which also means he has a bigger hand than me. I am pretty sure that my 2 pair is in third place, but I picked up a backdoor draw to the nuts. I call. UTG 3 bets, MP2 caps (I figure he has to have a straight also) I call, UTG calls.

River (23BBs) 5

UTG bets (all in) MP2 raises, I fold.

HAND 2- The 20/40 game has a half kill, so when a player wins 2 pots in a row, the stakes go up to 30/60. This was a half kill pot, and I was on the button with 5

5 players limp before action gets to me, so I throw a bet in to see the flop. the sb completes, and bb checks.

The flop comes 8

( 8SBs)
giving me a weak open ended draw.
The sb checks, UTG bets, 2 players call, I raise as a classic "free card" play. The sb 3 bets (crap) and everyone calls.

Turn is T

giving me a flush draw, but making a full house possible. (11BBs)
sb bets, UTG calls, 2 fold, I raise- this is a debatable play. The raise is for value, with a straight draw and a flush draw, but I could make my hand and lose. sb 3 bets (also debabtable, you'll see) UTG folds, I call.

River is Q

and I have my flush. (18 BBs)
sb bets, I raise, sb 3 bets, I call. I think a raise here was correct, but I am afraid of a 5 bet from a full house.

And Last three, real quick-like -

I am button with K

It is folded to the CO, who raises. I read him as weak, and trying to pick up the blinds, so I 3 bet to isolate. The BB caps (crap, that didn't work) I say " damn, I was bluffing"

Flop (12.5 SBs) 349 rainbow
checked to me, I bet. both players call.

Turn (8BBs) 5

giving me a flush draw.
checked to me again, I bet...

I am button with 7

. one player limps, and I raise (position play) sb folds and bb calls, as does the limper.
Flop is J

the bb bets, limper folds, I raise. bb calls.
Turn is T

bb checks, I bet....

I am bb with 4

flop is 2

I bet, 2 calls.
turn is A

I check, MP checks, button bets, I call, MP folds.
river is 9

I bet...

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pokerfanatic

05-01-2005, 02:11 AM

#2 (permalink)

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I like your quote,

Anyways the 57s hand is interesting, this sounds like a loose ass 20/40 game to me to begin with so the value bet on the flop is debatable but I think I might have thrown it out there for more then just value on my hand see what everyone else is doing, the turn brings the board a pair but also gives you outs (hopefully), so assuming that both your draws are live I don't mind the raise here either, the tricky part is knowing if your draws are even live... river I like the river got to though out a raise with a flush and call a reraise, hand gets tricky there in the middle flop and turn...

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Fnord

05-01-2005, 03:50 AM

#3 (permalink)

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In hand 2 I hate the flop and turn raises. You don't have enough equity (if a Jack hits you'll often be second best), everyone knows the play and it cuts into your implied odds.

Consider that on the turn a straight + flush draw has 15 outs (32.6% equity, break even 3 way.) However, the 9

and T

are very dirty. Down to 13 outs (28.3%) and discount for the pair on the board, a Jack could make you the second best straight and if you get 3-bet you'll want to vommit.

Unless the SB is an idiot he either filled up on the turn or flopped the nuts, the action just fits too well. Somehow I think he shows you QJ...

Classic example of an aware player way over-playing a draw when it's crystal clear no one is folding and he doesn't have more than his fair share of equity.

Stop raising for a free card unless you have another good reason to raise (an actual equity edge) or a really good read. Your bankroll will thank you.

I call the flop (if it wasn't for the backdoor flush I would count the pot and consider a fold right there), call the turn (I would fold without the flush draw), raise the river, cry and call a 3-bet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

elipsesjeff

05-01-2005, 04:46 AM

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elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point

I dislike the river fold with your two pair on hand 1. You need to call this as you are getting 14-1 to make this river call. With two pair and a pot that is well out of control you need to call it. Granted, you are paying off the guy who flopped his straight but you will definately win this more than 7% of the time. 26 BB *$40 = Mad Bling.

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Demiparadigm

05-07-2005, 01:31 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Stop raising for a free card unless you have another good reason to raise (an actual equity edge) or a really good read. Your bankroll will thank you.

There are 5 players on the flop, So there was an equity edge if my draw is live.

Quote:

Consider that on the turn a straight + flush draw has 15 outs (32.6% equity, break even 3 way.) However, the 9 and T are very dirty. Down to 13 outs (28.3%) and discount for the pair on the board, a Jack could make you the second best straight and if you get 3-bet you'll want to vommit.

I agree. I don't like the turn raise. Hindsight is 20/40 eh?

I wasn't afraid of a J though, the 7 or Q were scarier cards.

Quote:

Unless the SB is an idiot he either filled up on the turn or flopped the nuts, the action just fits too well. Somehow I think he shows you QJ...

I forgot to write that... SB is an idiot. I put him on JJ here, actually. He had J

So he played sillier than I did. at least I had position... And I would have won just by betting the river if he missed his draw.

Quote:

I didn't feel that I was even close to good 7% of the time here. I probably do fold a little more than I should though.
I probably play draws a little too strong and made hands too weak.
Both players had KT here.

The last 3 I won/won/lost
the first 2 got folded, and the third I was called by a poo ace.

To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.

Fnord

05-07-2005, 01:47 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

There are 5 players on the flop, So there was an equity edge if my draw is live.

Single card sucker end + backdoor flush. Not enough good outs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Fnord

05-07-2005, 04:09 AM

#7 (permalink)

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Nice Hand, I'll re-raise you in the dark

1,309,185 games 18.047 secs 72,543 games/sec

Board: 8d 9c Tc
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 13.0639 % [ 00.10 00.03 ] { 7d5d }
Hand 2: 17.3757 % [ 00.15 00.02 ] { random }
Hand 3: 17.3901 % [ 00.15 00.03 ] { random }
Hand 4: 17.3865 % [ 00.15 00.03 ] { random }
Hand 5: 17.3742 % [ 00.15 00.03 ] { random }
Hand 6: 17.4097 % [ 00.15 00.03 ] { random }

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Demiparadigm

05-07-2005, 04:54 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Ouch.

So the flop raise was a little worse than I thought...

To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.

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